New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

As a Conservative, I do not believe this legislation will succeed. I think the legal drafting will not be good enough nor will it sail through the Parliament. However, both major parties are trying to win the General Election and the bill for housing asylum seekers is becoming a national issue, so that is why both parties will have to make new policies. My issue here is flinging about the term racist at anyone who does not support the position of WWM2 and some others. It is not polite and is not helpful. The Brexit vote was democratic however you think the people who voted that way were mislead
My anger ( and I am angry) is about remarks of Gary Lineker and the use of the words Concentration Camps to describe anything in the UK. I saw the films of what happened straight after the War as it was thought we needed to know. I have never forgotten. I since visited Auscwitz (spelling) Birkenau and then while in Germany I visited Dachau. I cannot express the horror of what I saw. So don’t you see that no hotels or holding centres should be described this way.. I simply do not understand why Lineker compares the government with Nazism.
My main concern is that these refugees spend thousands on sailing on unsafe boats when they could cross into Europe and catch a flight to UK much more cheaply. And I think some asylum seekers who are worried they are coming from a safe country will not use that safe route and will destroy their passports and personal papers. British Govts are at fault and the work rate in the Home Office is painfully slow. We need to have border control having centres in France to administer the system but we have never provided the funding which is necessary. And by the way, I read in the DT that Labour deported more illegal immigrants than the Conservatives ever have…

I think more votes for the tories might be gained from a concerted effort to make sure all of the Iraquis and Afghans who helped our forces during the war are brought safely over here. They put their lives and those of their families on the line to help our country and we are not treating them fairly.
Seems even the govt think these new rules are contrary to the ECHR so unlikely to work and if we withdraw from the ECHR that will cause more problems with trade and world standing.
Almost pointless seeking more assistance from France who are just interested in seeing the back of the camps on their shores.
Have long thought cross party agreement on this is the only way to get to the bottom of the matter without any of the usual political point scoring.
We are a small country and our resources are finite and already stretched in the way of health, housing, school places and the economy to name just a few and something has to be done but in as humane and sensible way as possible.

My anger ( and I am angry) is about remarks of Gary Lineker and the use of the words Concentration Camps to describe anything in the UK.

You know, of course, that it was the British who 'invented' concentration camps during the Boer War in south Africa.
To equate the term with the German concentration camps is understandable, but hyperbolic.
This is a definition of 'concentration camp'

noun
1)A camp where persons are confined, usually without hearings and typically under harsh conditions, often as a result of their membership in a group the government has identified as suspect.

2)A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.

3) A camp where large numbers of persons—such as political prisoners, prisoners of war, refugees—are detained for the purpose of concentrating them in one place.

I think that the government proposals qualify under the first definition and probably under the third.

Gary Linneker was pointing out the similarity of the language used by our government in relation to asylum seekers to the language used in 1930s Germany, principally about Jews, but also about anyone considered to be enemies of the State, or People. Can you show how it is different?

My main concern is that these refugees spend thousands on sailing on unsafe boats when they could cross into Europe and catch a flight to UK much more cheaply.

If they could easily get a flight (or ferry) from Europe to the UK I think they would do it. Some asylum seekers do come in on temporary visas and then claim asylum.

Unfortunately for many they don't have visas because they don't have access to the means to apply for them and some don't have passports (not everyone does have one and if you're fleeing for your life you don't have the time or opportunity to obtain one; that's assuming that the country you're fleeing from would even let you have one).

And I think some asylum seekers who are worried they are coming from a safe country will not use that safe route and will destroy their passports and personal papers.

Their is nothing in the international Refugee Conventions that stipulates that they must stay in the first safe country they reach. Nothing at all.

Destroying papers is a problem, I grant you, but not sufficient to demonise all asylum seekers

British Govts are at fault and the work rate in the Home Office is painfully slow.

And who has been in power for 13 years and done nothing to rectify this?

We need to have border control having centres in France to administer the system but we have never provided the funding which is necessary.

You are right but it's been the UK government's choice.

And by the way, I read in the DT that Labour deported more illegal immigrants than the Conservatives ever have…

Exactly...

orly

Kandinsky

Can anyone explain where all these people are going to be held whilst waiting export

Maybe they’ll build a great big building next to your house Whitewavemark2?

you could offer to house & feed some of them too? help keep costs down.

I’m sure you’d be only too delighted.

or Gary Lineker could take them in.....

Read my earlier posts.

He has, does and is planning to do so again.

@ExperiencedNotOld makes some valid points about many of these illegal asylum seekers. They believe they will be well looked after in the UK, they know what to say and have their own agenda.

Following a harsh pandemic and the war in Ukraine, we should concentrate on looking after our own people first before trying to fix world problems.

The country is not big enough, we have enormous National debt, not enough housing, schools, or NHS capabilities.

Where is the money going to come from to resolve all these matters?

libra10

@ExperiencedNotOld makes some valid points about many of these illegal asylum seekers. They believe they will be well looked after in the UK, they know what to say and have their own agenda.

Following a harsh pandemic and the war in Ukraine, we should concentrate on looking after our own people first before trying to fix world problems.

The country is not big enough, we have enormous National debt, not enough housing, schools, or NHS capabilities.

Where is the money going to come from to resolve all these matters?

Over to you maizie 😄😄

We are an island we can’t take in everyone unless any of you are volunteering to house these young fighting age men with no checks into your house with your family and grandchildren. It’s got nothing to do with leaving eu or who you voted for. This is our country and we should beable to decide who we allow to live here and who we don’t. Why should these people take priority over ppl born here. As a vets mum I’m disgusted that we have our own vets on the streets and yet these ppl are in 4star hotels. Ppl of uk are struggling and getting angry about this.

The belief is that the people trying to get here will somehow learn of the new policy. Yes it is likely that people will have a phone or internet but unless they actively look for the information then it is unlikely that they will know of the permanent exclusion . I give the example that unless I actually want to know about the weather in another area then I have no way of knowing .
I wish somebody would explain why the government will not collaborate with the French as it would be a "lack of sovereignty ".

Linneker is way out of line talking about concentration camps, the plan is to use military barracks to house single men, Scampton and Wethersfield have been mentioned no doubt others are available, the few families will still use hotels as now.

Obviously they will not like being put in guarded barracks in the country they thought was going to be milk and honey, they will probably think life in Albania wasn’t so bad after all.

I don’t suppose that will satisfy those on GN that think all migrants are nice people, the Albanians and other illegals should be allowed to roam free.

Whitewavemark2

libra10

@ExperiencedNotOld makes some valid points about many of these illegal asylum seekers. They believe they will be well looked after in the UK, they know what to say and have their own agenda.

Following a harsh pandemic and the war in Ukraine, we should concentrate on looking after our own people first before trying to fix world problems.

The country is not big enough, we have enormous National debt, not enough housing, schools, or NHS capabilities.

Where is the money going to come from to resolve all these matters?

Over to you maizie 😄😄

I should think Maizie is fed up of explaining. It becomes repetitive.
It suits a certain agenda to believe this.

14:52libra10
"@ExperiencedNotOld makes some valid points about many of these illegal asylum seekers. They believe they will be well looked after in the UK, they know what to say and have their own agenda.

Following a harsh pandemic and the war in Ukraine, we should concentrate on looking after our own people first before trying to fix world problems.

The country is not big enough, we have enormous National debt, not enough housing, schools, or NHS capabilities.

Where is the money going to come from to resolve all these matters?"

I agree libra10 with you it can't go on something needs to be done and ExperiencedNotOld did indeed make some valid points which I agree with, I particularly liked ExperiencedNotOld comment re 'Obnoxious Prig and her cohorts' she was spot on there

15:41ordinarygirl

Don't worry ordinarygirl the illegals all pass through CareforCalais the last link so it would seem in the smugglers chain and they certainly know about the Illegal Migration Bill let's hope they tell them and they stay in France. Fingers crossed 🤞😊

Maudi

14:52libra10
"@ExperiencedNotOld makes some valid points about many of these illegal asylum seekers. They believe they will be well looked after in the UK, they know what to say and have their own agenda.

Following a harsh pandemic and the war in Ukraine, we should concentrate on looking after our own people first before trying to fix world problems.

The country is not big enough, we have enormous National debt, not enough housing, schools, or NHS capabilities.

Where is the money going to come from to resolve all these matters?"

*I agree libra10 with you it can't go on something needs to be done and ExperiencedNotOld did indeed make some valid points which I agree with, I particularly liked ExperiencedNotOld comment re 'Obnoxious Prig and her cohorts' she was spot on there*

The UK is the fifth richest country in the world.

Some appalling attitudes have been displayed in the posts above, some people’s ignorance is only matched by their lack of compassion. Shame on you.

Cossy

Incidentally, there’s nothing wrong with legitimate economic migrates, us Brits have done this for years, working and living in many places abroad and calling ourselves ex-pats !!!

Also there is a proportion of Albanians coming here but by no means the large proportion the media/govt would have us believe and whilst they are economic migrants, most of them are NOT criminals other than entering this country illegally. We are also nowhere near taking as many refugees as at least 10 other countries ahead of us. Lots and lots of propaganda spread about asylum seekers and much racism around this subject. We have plenty of resources left in this country to look after both our “own” people and offer asylum to a proportion of others. Much of our land is still owned by the crown and our governments choose how to waste our taxpayers cash ! We are still in the top ten richest economic countries and should show more compassion

Well said Cossy!

Can anyone explain what safe routes are available
Even Suella Braverman couldn’t answer that when asked by a parliamentary committee.

hallgreenmiss

*Can anyone explain what safe routes are available*
Even Suella Braverman couldn’t answer that when asked by a parliamentary committee.

There aren’t any

I should think Maizie is fed up of explaining. It becomes repetitive.
It suits a certain agenda to believe this.

She is, Farzanah. I suspect everyone who has explained it is fed up...

This really is the post truth era, isn't it?

MaizieD

^I should think Maizie is fed up of explaining. It becomes repetitive.^
It suits a certain agenda to believe this.

She is, Farzanah. I suspect everyone who has explained it is fed up...

This really is the post truth era, isn't it?

It is due to the fact that every politician regardless of party in every interview parrots the same line something like the following:-

the coffers are empty, to have this that or the other we will have to cut some services/jobs etc. , or put up taxes

So no we are not living in a post truth era

MaizieD so now anyone who disagrees with you snd WW2 is a liar? Many people who disagree with you will not post because of some very unkinf remarks you make. So we are the 5th richest country in the world and yet both Conservative and Labour govts have been unable to improve the infrastructure… housing, medical services , schools for a start. People do not think we are rich and if govts in tbe countries from countries where people flee were not so corrupt or governed by an illiberal religion then the world would be a better place. I can tell you that living in London is not like that in areas not so overpopulated. Street homeless numbrrs are huge, Hospitals are overcrowded and school places of choice are very poor. Add public transport and we are overpopulated. France and Germany are so much bigger than UK so they have room. Maybe Scotland and Counties outside London can do more. One thing i do agree with you about and that is the brave interpreters who helped us in Afghanistan and Iraq should have been rescued by us. We had an obligation to them.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

I should think Maizie is fed up of explaining. It becomes repetitive.
It suits a certain agenda to believe this.

She is, Farzanah. I suspect everyone who has explained it is fed up...

This really is the post truth era, isn't it?

It is due to the fact that every politician regardless of party in every interview parrots the same line something like the following:-

the coffers are empty, to have this that or the other we will have to cut some services/jobs etc. , or put up taxes

So no we are not living in a ^post truth era^

I'm not sure I follow what you are saying there, GG13

What has 'empty coffers' (which, indeed, is not true) got to do with the post truth era?

What about all these folks parroting 'first safe country', 'illegals', 'overcrowded', etc. etc.? Not true, but, heigh ho...

MaizieD so now anyone who disagrees with you snd WW2 is a liar?

How you reach that conclusion is a mystery to me, Anniel

both Conservative and Labour govts have been unable to improve the infrastructure… housing, medical services , schools for a start.

You live in a completely different universe from me, Anniel

Don't you recall the big fuss about PFI during the Labour government? New schools and new hospitals all over the place... Huge improvements to the NHS, rated one of the best health services in the world by 2010. Why didn't the tories build on that? Because they don't believe in state spending so they cut everything back. To the bone. Don't blame Labour for our creaking infrastructure...

This article isn’t from the The Daily Mail but from Amnesty International.
It describes the camps in Libya supported by the eu.

www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/01/libya-eu-conditions-remain-hellish-as-eu-marks-5-years-of-cooperation-agreements/

Read the thread MaizieD it really is self explanatory leafing on from libra10’s post…

Maizie D. Oh I remember PFI well. It seemed like a brilliant policy at the time, but it was not what it seemed particularly with regard to hospitals who are tied into the companies who built them. They are paying hugely over the odds for stuff they need to buy. You have looked into this I presume. The NHS is not the best service in the world at all. Try Australia if you are of pensionable age. When I was there for my 80th birthday I had double pneumonia plus a heart attack ( I have chronic heart disease) I was not expected to live but my treatment by doctors and staff was impeccable and when I left my bill was nil because Australia has an agreement with UK to treat pensioners free! Many countries have good medical treatment and if there was a league table I am not sure where UK would be. As Labour is so sure to win the next general election, we will wait and see.