New immigration bill - how on earth will it work?

silverlining48

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?

I have just watched PMQs. It makes me sick to the stomach to hear Sunak saying that this proposed legislation is a 'compassionate' solution.

It also makes me sick to hear him insisting that it's 'what The People' want.

Whitewavemark2

Yes - it’s all about the next election - fool the voter and win the election. “Othering” helped win them Brexit so they reckon this will win them the election.

If it is just that[not saying it isnt necessarily], I am suprised it has been started this early.
A General election[yes I know there are local elections] doesnt have to be called or had, cant remember which, until January 2025.

MaizieD

silverlining48

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?

I have just watched PMQs. It makes me sick to the stomach to hear Sunak saying that this proposed legislation is a 'compassionate' solution.

It also makes me sick to hear him insisting that it's 'what The People' want.

There are always the people who are not speaking up or speaking out to count as well.And I suspect there are a large number of those.
I think even Politicians disregard them. At their peril sometimes.

But I agree, saying "The People" and lumping them all together, is hardly correct.

The obvious answer is that it won't work.

It is doubtful that sending illegal immigrants anywhere except back to their own countries, if they will not be at risk of imprisonment or death there, is even legal.

Unfortunately, there are at least two sides to this problem.
Enormous numbers of people are fleeing from famine, war, climate change in the Middle East and Africa and trying desperately to find somewhere to live in safety.

Why so many want to get to Britain, turning down offers of homes and work in countries such as France and Germany is beyond me, but that is their decision and in part due to the fact that the policy of them having to seek the right to stay in the first country in Europe that they reached, placed far to great a strain on Greece and Italy, and to a certain extent Spain too.

No one seems to have a workable solution, but one will need to be found.

fancythat

MaizieD

silverlining48

Generally most people here have no personal or family experience of having to leave your home, your country, packing only what little you can physically carry. To risk your life to get to what you hope is a safe place. Possibly never to see family or friends again. Try to imagine what that feels like.
This has affected my direct family and leaving everything you know is the hardest decision not one lightly taken, it’s not a whim, which is why I feel so much sympathy for the plight of refugees from war, starvation or harsh political governance.
Although I have no time for our current government and worry where it is headed we still have what so many others don’t.
As for economic migrants I can understand that too. Wouldn’t we if brave enough, do the same thing?

I have just watched PMQs. It makes me sick to the stomach to hear Sunak saying that this proposed legislation is a 'compassionate' solution.

It also makes me sick to hear him insisting that it's 'what The People' want.

There are always the people who are not speaking up or speaking out to count as well.And I suspect there are a large number of those.
I think even Politicians disregard them. At their peril sometimes.

But I agree, saying "The People" and lumping them all together, is hardly correct.

Many moons ago, I studied Nazi language in some detail as part of my degree.

"People" is English for "Volk", which acquired a special meaning in Nazi propaganda. The "Volk" were all of us. The Nazi party saw itself as the guardian of the "Volk", so anybody dissenting from the Nazi was branded a traitor. Isn't that what Braverman said we are, if we disagree with her legislation?

Some of the logic defeats me. Why should the threat of deportation stop the boats? The people who are conned into paying vast sums to traffickers are not going to be aware of these changes or how they will be affected. If anything they will be forced to pay even more money because the traffickers will be working even harder on their behalf!!! Meanwhile people are going to be reduced to commodities to be shipped off round the world. Does that make us much better than the traffickers?

No one seems to have a workable solution, but one will need to be found.

I don't think that is true, grandtanteJE65. I've seen 'workable solutions' time and time again, but they are not ones which our government wish to pursue. This is a purely political move prompted by their low poll ratings. They think that there are enough xenophobes and racists in the UK to swing it for them at the next GE.

I sincerely trust that they are wrong.

In one of his blog posts today Richard Murphy quotes in full the statement from the UNHCR (The UN refugee agency) on on the UK Asylum Bill

His summary of it:

In summary, they are saying:

The UK is denying the right to asylum here.
Claiming illegality of entry as a bar to entry when claiming asylum is oxymoronic because refugees almost inevitably lack legal status.
No one has to apply for asylum in the first country they reach.
The UK government rhetoric on this whole issue is inappropriate.
That is most especially the case as we have no appropriate arrangements in place for transferring genuine asylum seekers to another country.
We will, therefore, leave genuine asylum seekers in limbo if we seek to expel them, abusing their rights as a result.
We are failing in our international duty.

The whole statement is worth reading; it puts to bed a number of myths.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2023/03/08/yesterday-we-saw-fascist-legislation-proposed-in-the-uk-parliament/

Simple answer - it won't.

Having read most of the posts I turned to the newspaper; a man deported from this country for raping a twelve year old, and who has served a prison sentence, is waiting to board a boat to return. Evidently he has 'changed his ways' and 'It was all a misunderstanding'. If, as some suggest, we fast track, how can we stop someone like this? He may be one in ten, twenty thousand I don't doubt, but he is there, waiting to come back, and not by any legal route. Do we want him?

A large amount if the traffickers are living in this country having come from abroad, one was interviewed the other day. So many are economic migrants and not fleeing torture, we need a proper system as we must not let people come here on these boats. People caught trafficking should be sent back to their country of origin and all their ill gotten gains taken off them. Every time anything is done to curb the influx the left protest. If I was escaping torture and starvation I wouldn’t come through so many safe countries and risk my families lives on these boats, doesn’t make sense. They get more here than the countries they come through.

Which newspaper was that, Rosina?. Can you post a link to the story?

Likewise, Allsorts. Any chance of a link to the interview? Or detail of the channel and the day it was broadcast so that it could be googled?

Then people can see for themselves.

Try Google 😉

I'm not adept at posting links, bu the article is on page seven of today's Times.

They get more here than the countries they come through.

Oh no, they don't!!!

If I was escaping torture and starvation I wouldn’t come through so many safe countries and risk my families lives on these boats.
Firstly are you saying that the first “safe” country that a refugee arrives in should be where they stay? In that case there would be a huge burden on a few countries such as Greece, Italy and Turkey.

We take a far fewer share of refugees than many other countries when you look at the figures.

If I was a refugee arriving in for example Greece, and my family were living in UK I would naturally want to get to them.

I've found a link to the Sky News interview. In the middle of an interesting twitter thread. Thread's worth reading.

t.co/lHc2v70ZW1

twitter.com/MaxMigliorato/status/1632893804658163799

growstuff

*They get more here than the countries they come through.*

Oh no, they don't!!!

They probably don’t get more, but they are told by the trafficking gang that they will so that the gang can get money and/or hold them indentured in the UK for criminal activity.

Katie59

growstuff

They get more here than the countries they come through.

Oh no, they don't!!!

They probably don’t get more, but they are told by the trafficking gang that they will so that the gang can get money and/or hold them indentured in the UK for criminal activity.

Why are refugees/asylum seekers being discussed as though they are being manipulated by the traffickers and have no thoughts, ideas, desires of their own?

As though they are completely stupid when we know from their subsequent careers that many are well educated and a credit to the country that shelters them.

This seems to me to be similar to what disabled people complain about, the 'does he take sugar?' syndrome.

Asylum seekers may well have connections in the UK, there may well be justification, economic migrants have no justification or right to enter the UK wether they have contacts or not. Albanian migrants are unlikely to have contacts other than the trafficking gangs who are going to use them for illegal purposes.

Can you not see that organised crime needs to bring illegals to the UK and promise or coerce the vulnerable to achieve their aims

I can see, Katie59 that the people (not 'illegals', Katie, people) who risk their lives crossing the most dangerous stretch of water in Europe are a highly diverse set and all that your language is doing is 'othering' and dehumanising them.

There is a greater need to tackle those making money out of those willing or desperate enough to take to the boats.

They are desperate and the only way they can get here is by sea, so until a more civilised way of applying is agreed those seeking asylum have no other choice. No one in their right mind would choose to risk their lives if there were safe alternatives.

MaizieD

I can see, Katie59 that the people (not 'illegals', Katie, people) who risk their lives crossing the most dangerous stretch of water in Europe are a highly diverse set and all that your language is doing is 'othering' and dehumanising them.

None of them have to risk their lives crossing the channel to get Asylum. - a place of safety

They choose to do it because they are convinced they would be better off in the UK than elsewhere, others will be forced by the gangs to make the crossing

I'd like to introduce people to a group who aren't just talking.....
we have a local one that is both practical help and political speaking up

cityofsanctuary.org/2023/03/08/take-action-against-the-new-ban-on-the-human-right-to-claim-asylum/