Identifying as a different gender

Callistemon21

Has it been reported that the teacher was sacked?

The teacher was on a short term contract (possibly supply?), which wasn't renewed.

volver3

It's an expensive boarding school now, is it?

No conclusion unjumped...

It apparently costs £20,000 a year.My conclusion too is that that is expensive. As for being a boarding school - for that amount I think most parents would expect boarding as well as tuition.

Elegran

If someone has actually observed and can give chapter and verse that in that ward all the nurses of one ethnicity displayed the same antisocial characteristics in how they interacted with patients and with other ethnicities, then they are justified in lumping them all together when complaining about them. It it the behaviour that is objected to, not the ethnicity.

If it is impossible to complain about someone's (or several people's) behaviour because of their colour, nationality or ethnicity, then it can easily become a kind of reverse racism - similar to the attitude that was expected in the US in past years, when people stood back to let others go first just because they were white and others were not.

Sorry Elegran I disagree.

If you (general, not you particularly) lump everyone of a particular nationality together and say that they have all the same characteristics, then you are being racist.

You can say that you have observed that a particular group of named people are behaving in a way that you do not think is acceptable, but you can't say its because they are all foreigners from the same country.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism" There is only racism. The more I think about it, thinking that there is such a thing as "reverse racism" is probably racist...

Reverse racism doesn't exist, racism is the oppression of an entire race, you can only be prejudiced against those who haven't faced oppression.

People who think they are experiencing reverse racism usually can't grasp that it is only them as an individual that is disliked

Elegran

volver3

It's an expensive boarding school now, is it?

No conclusion unjumped...

It apparently costs £20,000 a year.My conclusion too is that that is expensive. As for being a boarding school - for that amount I think most parents would expect boarding as well as tuition.

Prices have risen.
That would be n the low side now, I think.

Elegran

volver3

It's an expensive boarding school now, is it?

No conclusion unjumped...

It apparently costs £20,000 a year.My conclusion too is that that is expensive. As for being a boarding school - for that amount I think most parents would expect boarding as well as tuition.

The private school in Dundee, Dundee High, costs £14,000 a year. That's not residential. Fettes is £30,000, non residential.

"Expensive" is in the eye of the beholder...

In Ireland we have the case of Enoch Burke, who has spent months in jail as a result of this kind of issue. His brother also. To me if you have Y DNA you're male, otherwise female. Beyond that, I would have tackled it all differently, but that's no doubt easy to say. With him, it's down to his religious beliefs, and his rights imo have been ignored. None of this is going away, and some sane people will have to sort it. Majority Ireland is now so anti-clerical and anti-religion that sanity does not prevail. 'Woke' is everything here now.

I am very willing to address any person by their preferred pronouns providing they

(a) let me know what these pronouns are and try to stick to them

(b) refer to me as "Vintagenonna, ruler of the known Universe and fount from whom all reason, understanding, logic, information and home made jam flows."

Enoch Burke ignored a court injunction and went to a school which had banned him from attending while he was subject to a disciplinary process.

When it comes to 'woke' being used as an insult, I'm firmly with Kathy Burke: "“They’re calling you ‘woke’ if you call out bad things, basically. If you’re not racist, you’re woke. If you’re not homophobic, oh, you’re woke. Be woke, kids. Be woke. Be wide awake and f***ing call it out.”

Can't somebody identify as a girl one day and a boy another? Or maybe go through a time of feeling like they identify as one gender and then change their mind? However, if a girl at an all girls school has a wobble about their gender, loads of you wish to send that person packing. Is this the same people who think if you are born a girl, you are a girl and that's it? Isn't there an irony there?

Blondiescot

When it comes to 'woke' being used as an insult, I'm firmly with Kathy Burke: "“They’re calling you ‘woke’ if you call out bad things, basically. If you’re not racist, you’re woke. If you’re not homophobic, oh, you’re woke. Be woke, kids. Be woke. Be wide awake and f***ing call it out.”

Love her

I agree, Nantoone.

There is no need to tolerate unkindness from children. When children are being unkind they should be shown how appreciate what others, who in this case is a teacher, are doing for them.
Children also need to learn respect for seniors.
I hope the school authorities are addressing this problem of bullying by children.

Absolutely agree, Icansendthemback. Children play at various roles and learn from their play.

We need to be careful of assuming a child aught to leave if they 'identify' as the other gender. They are still legally and have the physical serial attributes of, the 'gender' they were born with
If it is a boy 'identifying' as a girl, should they be made to leave and potentially then join a girls school, but still retain the physical sexual characteristics of a boy? If I had a daughter in a girls school, I'd rather not be faced with that situation.
Let's not forget that gender is what you think you are, it's not what you actually are. Your sex is what you are. Unless of course you actually change it.
(A bit like me 'identifying' as a supermodel, but knowing I'm not actually one!)

Yes we need to be clear about the difference between sex and gender. This students sex is female.

Galaxy

Yes we need to be clear about the difference between sex and gender. This students sex is female.

But if they want to identify as a boy then perhaps a co-ed school might be a better choice.

But they arent a boy, and the advice now for those pre puberty is against social affirmation. Obviously anyone can chose to leave a school for any reason. They may be more comfortable at a co ed school I have no idea but the school should not be enforcing a move.

Caleo

We don't have enough information. A teacher should address pupils without referring to their sex or their gender whether or not it's a one-sex school. The sex and the gender of learners is irrelevant to understanding Euclid, the Tang dynasty, or Wordsworth.

"Good morning students" "Good morning pupils" "Good morning children" "Good morning people" "Good morning friends" "Good morning you horrible lot" are sex and gender neutral.

When I was at school our Head (master) used to welcome us to Assembly with “Good morning School”.

I haven’t RTWT so I don’t know all that has gone on.
So because one child who chose to go to an all girl’s school, is allowed to dictate how all the other pupils are addressed?
Watching the jumping in to propose changing accurate vocabulary -girls- for the pupils in this school, to suit one person who is still a girl.
The next step will be other pupils being punished for using the wrong pronoun for this person who, is presumably wearing the same uniform as all the other girls-shirt/skirt/trousers.
Or maybe the “no wearing badges or pins” rule will be changed to accommodate the girl wearing a “my pronoun is he” badge, or even compelling all the other pupils to wear pronoun badges.
Interesting.
I have this strong feeling of déjà vu.

volver3

Elegran

If someone has actually observed and can give chapter and verse that in that ward all the nurses of one ethnicity displayed the same antisocial characteristics in how they interacted with patients and with other ethnicities, then they are justified in lumping them all together when complaining about them. It it the behaviour that is objected to, not the ethnicity.

If it is impossible to complain about someone's (or several people's) behaviour because of their colour, nationality or ethnicity, then it can easily become a kind of reverse racism - similar to the attitude that was expected in the US in past years, when people stood back to let others go first just because they were white and others were not.

Sorry Elegran I disagree.

If you (general, not you particularly) lump everyone of a particular nationality together and say that they have all the same characteristics, then you are being racist.

You can say that you have observed that a particular group of named people are behaving in a way that you do not think is acceptable, but you can't say its because they are all foreigners from the same country.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism" There is only racism. The more I think about it, thinking that there is such a thing as "reverse racism" is probably racist...

What I understood from Esmay's post was that all the nurses of that race/ethnicity who were on duty at that time and in that hospital were acting in the same way. That is not the same as condemning a whole race for the behaviour of one subset of them. What these nurses had in common was their ethnicity, and that would identify them to any superiors who wished to ask them to change their behaviour. Had they all been blondes or all left-handed, that would have identified them.

However it sometimes seems that to legitimately criticise one non-white person for their behaviour can trigger accusations that they are only being picked because of their colour, when that may have nothing to do with it.

I still disagree Elegran

"All those left handed people are causing trouble"?

"All those Romanians are causing trouble"?

(Apologies to any Romanians - I'm using that as an example of how ridiculous this position is.)

If you say you can't see the difference than I truly think you are being disingenuous.

As for the whole "you can't criticise anybody these days or you get accused of racism?" That's the kind of thing people say when they think they are the ones being picked on in life.

If you are able to properly identify an ethnicity because you know, diverse world, many countries.... then names should be much easier

I don't quite understand Esmay's comment "they were not allowed to form a group at the nurses' station" Does it refer to the nurses or the patients? Nurses have to congregate at the station to pass information to each other, so it couldn't mean them. It must mean that the nurses didn't let patients gather at the station.

It is strange that you say I must be being disingenuous, Volver, when you often take up positions as Devil's Advocate.

I never post anything for effect and just to cause an argument but if you think I do there's not much I can do about that.