Charitable status and private schools

MaizieD

I'm sure someone has said this before, but I doubt very much if the taxes paid by parents with children in private education, pay anywhere near enough to significantly contribute to the cost of the 93% of children who are state educated.

I should imagine that the majority of parents who send their children to fee paying schools are paying upwards of 40% tax, which puts their income above that which they can claim child benefit also.

I am all for increasing standards and discipline in all schools but adamantly oppose to the closing or change of status of fee paying schools.

I think Labour will need to think very carefully about how they implement this 20% VAT on school fees when they come into power. Private schools aren't daft, and bursars are already drawing up contingency plans which could see a Labour government shaking its head.
Many private schools might well be forced to exit the Government’s expensive pension scheme (TPS) and look for cheaper alternatives. That would be a big hit to take and counter productive for them if schools switched to private pension schemes. Who could blame the schools, as businesses, looking for ways to soften the financial blow?

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

I'm sure someone has said this before, but I doubt very much if the taxes paid by parents with children in private education, pay anywhere near enough to significantly contribute to the cost of the 93% of children who are state educated.

I should imagine that the majority of parents who send their children to fee paying schools are paying upwards of 40% tax, which puts their income above that which they can claim child benefit also.

I am all for increasing standards and discipline in all schools but adamantly oppose to the closing or change of status of fee paying schools.

Well, of course the taxes paid by parents whose children go to fee-paying schools will not fund state schools - no-one suggested that.

However, they will be helping to fund state education, as all taxpayers do, but by not taking up the option of state education for their children, they thereby save the state the approximate £7,500 per child pa cost of educating them too.
A double payment.

Offset that against the VAT saved by the schools having charitable status and it is not surprising that Starmer knows it is really not worth pursuing, either politically or financially.

In Australia, around 30% of primary and 40% of secondary school children attend a private, or independent, school. School fees vary widely, depending on the type of private school and the different sectors that govern them. Catholic schools generally cost less than independent schools where families can pay fees of more than $40,000 per year.

Despite the term “independent school”, all schools in Australia receive government funding. On average, Catholic schools receive around 75% and independent schools around 45% of their funding from state and federal governments.

theconversation.com/going-to-private-school-wont-make-a-difference-to-your-kids-academic-scores-175638

Re school uniforms- some primary schools and at least one public school run second hand school uniforms at a fraction of the original price. Definitely worth the time and effort to set up.

ronib

Re school uniforms- some primary schools and at least one public school run second hand school uniforms at a fraction of the original price. Definitely worth the time and effort to set up.

Why should those who are already marked out due to not having the latest Smiggle bag, lunch box, the right trainers etc. have to wear second hand uniform?

A school uniform fund is surely a better way forward.

Why not wear secondhand? It is more fashionable to have a sustainable lifestyle than a fad consumer approach - good values are part of education too.
What are the right trainers these days?

ronib

Why not wear secondhand? It is more fashionable to have a sustainable lifestyle than a fad consumer approach - good values are part of education too.
What are the right trainers these days?

Whilst I agree with you in principle, children can be very cruel to others who haven’t got the right stuff

As for trainers, depends on the child’s group vegan or not, sporty or not, but they know.

Children can be very cruel.

ronib

Children can be very cruel.

Yes, and to witness your child or grandchild being a victim is totally heartbreaking

GrannyGravy13

ronib

Children can be very cruel.

Yes, and to witness your child or grandchild being a victim is totally heartbreaking

My heart goes out to any child in this situation.
I think sometimes a teacher knows that a pupil is having a tough time, but assumes he or she is coping, which isn't the case.

Offset that against the VAT saved by the schools having charitable status and it is not surprising that Starmer knows it is really not worth pursuing, either politically or financially.

Starmer has only 'u turned' on the removal of charitable status.

He's still going to enforce VAT where applicable. I'm sure that his team has worked out the implications and see it as worthwhile.

Joseann

I think Labour will need to think very carefully about how they implement this 20% VAT on school fees when they come into power. Private schools aren't daft, and bursars are already drawing up contingency plans which could see a Labour government shaking its head.
Many private schools might well be forced to exit the Government’s expensive pension scheme (TPS) and look for cheaper alternatives. That would be a big hit to take and counter productive for them if schools switched to private pension schemes. Who could blame the schools, as businesses, looking for ways to soften the financial blow?

A number of private schools are already exiting TPS.

Aveline

I still don't understand how people who's children go to private schools are somehow subsidised by those who don't. Surely it's the other way around. Private school parents pay their taxes which cover public sector schools yet their children don't take up spaces in them. Hence they pay twice.

People without children pay for schools too.

growstuff

Aveline

I still don't understand how people who's children go to private schools are somehow subsidised by those who don't. Surely it's the other way around. Private school parents pay their taxes which cover public sector schools yet their children don't take up spaces in them. Hence they pay twice.

People without children pay for schools too.

That rather proves Aveline's point.
Most of us pay for public services, including those who never use them

MaizieD

^Offset that against the VAT saved by the schools having charitable status and it is not surprising that Starmer knows it is really not worth pursuing, either politically or financially.^

Starmer has only 'u turned' on the removal of charitable status.

He's still going to enforce VAT where applicable. I'm sure that his team has worked out the implications and see it as worthwhile.

I am sure that 20% VAT will be entirely possible and probable.

My starting point was that, somehow, Keir Starmer must have missed that the removal of charitable status in private schools was discussed and studied at length last time round in 2006/7 but was deemed by educational lawyers to be far too complicated to implement. I remember attending conferences by top legal firms in London telling us this. I just wish he hadn't given the media the opportunity to make such a meal out of something that was never going to happen.

maddyone

I know you think it’s inferior Dinahmo.
I just think you can’t judge a person by the coffee they drink.

But you can judge those who drink one thing and, with no discussion, give a cheaper beverage to someone else.

Dinahmo"s husband was presumably perceived to be of a lower status. I think they should have at least given him a choice. "Are you OK with ground coffee or do you prefer instant?" ...and yes, I do know one person who does!

Callistemon21

growstuff

Aveline

I still don't understand how people who's children go to private schools are somehow subsidised by those who don't. Surely it's the other way around. Private school parents pay their taxes which cover public sector schools yet their children don't take up spaces in them. Hence they pay twice.

People without children pay for schools too.

That rather proves Aveline's point.
Most of us pay for public services, including those who never use them

That was my point really. I can think of loads of public services my family and I have never used. We don't expect some kind of credit.

Most people with school aged children pay taxes. If they choose to and are then able to pay extra to send their children to a private school I can’t see a problem. Free country and all that. Mine went to a mix of private and state and mostly they did have secondhand uniforms if they could get one from the school shop. If not, we got new ones. That applied to the state school as well. No big deal. School books were different because, in their ‘wisdom’ they change them every year so you have to get new ones. You have to buy school books for state schools as well, no difference in price.

I have serious doubts about the principle of charging VAT on the provision of education, by anyone and at any level, from primary school to university.

Random thoughts having read the thread.

We had 5 children in the Independent system and would have really welcomed a Voucher system.

I actually ran the 2nd hand uniform shops at one of the 'private' schools attended by my children.

The word 'posh' means so many different things to so many different people that it is a totally pointless word.

It is invidious for anyone to try to dictate how we spend our 'after tax' money.

If the Independent schools that were attended by our children closed, an awful lot of the pupils would return to China.

I don't drink coffee of any variety.

Kitty - we also had 5 children- ours were home-educated so would also have liked vouchers!

IFS report on proposal of VAT on private schools

t.co/5IPVDTPJyd

I bought some new and some S/H for my 4 boys, they wore what was put out for them, they didn’t know or care wether it was new or not. I do remember new shoes were a problem all the other kids did their best to mess them up.

I wasn't expecting any sort of credit. My comments were those saying public schools were subsidising private education.