Migration comparison

It was a joke, DAR. You're the one who's not moving on.

And accusing me of trying to direct the conversation is a bit rich when you do it all the time to other posters.

As for the 'unacceptable economic theory', you're just demonstrating your completely closed mind.

Not on my part DAR

And yet again you cannot tell the truth when it comes to your beloved theory, Maizie but lie in order to put others in the wrong.

Where did I say it was an "unacceptable economic theory"?

I didn't, did I? If you had quoted truthfully you would have used my actual words which were an as yet unacceptable economic theory ( except by a small group of outliers).

My mind is open to this being shown to be anything but a stretch on and outside Keynes. Whose then is the closed mind? So closed that you attack on every subject at every chance you can. You did not do this until you gained the "true believer" status where MMT is concerned.

I’d like to know how foreign students can afford to study here. Why don’t they study in their own country, in their own language? 🤔

TiggyW

I’d like to know how foreign students can afford to study here. Why don’t they study in their own country, in their own language? 🤔

Because they come from rich families.

There are at least 3 million dollar millionaires in China and nearly a million in India. There are also Saudi students in the UK. A few African students are sponsored by their countries - they are the brightest and best and the UK should be happy to have them.

Chinese, Indian and Saudi parents make learning English from a young age a priority for their children and know that a British or American degree has more prestige (especially in the international market) than a degree from their home countries.

TiggyW

I’d like to know how foreign students can afford to study here. Why don’t they study in their own country, in their own language? 🤔

I curious why they bring others dependent on them - rather than send to boarding schools as seems to happen with forces children?

TiggyW

I’d like to know how foreign students can afford to study here. Why don’t they study in their own country, in their own language? 🤔

We have some of the best universities in the world.
Speaking English well opens up lots of opportunities for foreign students.
We actively recruit overseas students because they bring lots of money into the country.
It is a cheap way of recruiting talented people from abroad.
They often come from wealthy families so money is not a problem.
The UK is a great base for students who also want to do extensive travel in Europe as well as study.

I have a young American friend who has been in the UK for 8 years completely legitimately doing a variety of training and university courses. She comes from an extremely wealthy family, flies home to the states regularly and travels very extensively in Europe and further afield. She's currently in New Zealand and no doubt will be skiing somewhere after Christmas. She puts thousands into the UK economy every year and takes nothing out. She love it here but although she dearly loves her family, she hates their politics and though she is dearly loved by her family, they cannot accept her sexuality. People have all sorts of reasons for wanting to study in the UK and they more than pay their way. Why on earth anyone sees this as a problem, is completely beyond me!

Does any government dept release info on the number of people who have not left UK in accordance with their Visa terms. Over the years I have known of quite a few who have exceeded their visa stay and were working cash in hand. Recently there was a newspaper article, can't recall which, discussing the proportion of foreign students from China as being 30% of total. Concern in article was that a lot of them are coerced into spying for China, being well funded for all costs. Wonder if this is also going on with other countries.
As to immigration, try getting into Canada, USA, Australia because you have family living there.!A neighbour who has a son and his family living in USA. At one time her husband was working there . Applied for Visa to visit husband, refused on that occasion, why, she had been out 3 times already in the previous 2 years visiting son and husband. Husband had to come here for his holiday. A lot of countries have qualification needs or skill requirements before being allowed to immigrate. Why has UK to be different?

Australia advertises here for specific workers so it's not new.

Norah

TiggyW

I’d like to know how foreign students can afford to study here. Why don’t they study in their own country, in their own language? 🤔

I curious why they bring others dependent on them - rather than send to boarding schools as seems to happen with forces children?

Perhaps it's because they want to have their children with them? Would you live abroad for three or more years and not take your family with you? If they can afford to bring their dependents with them, surely that is what anyone would do?

foxie48

Norah

TiggyW

I’d like to know how foreign students can afford to study here. Why don’t they study in their own country, in their own language? 🤔

I curious why they bring others dependent on them - rather than send to boarding schools as seems to happen with forces children?

Perhaps it's because they want to have their children with them? Would you live abroad for three or more years and not take your family with you? If they can afford to bring their dependents with them, surely that is what anyone would do?

I agree. I can't imagine why anybody would want to send their children to boarding school rather than have them with them.

Postgraduate students are most likely in their twenties or even older. It's not strange for them to have spouses, who they want to take with them when they go abroad.

I don't understand people who object to having foreign students at UK universities. They bring shedloads of money with them, knowledge of study in their own countries and a different and fresh outlook. They prevent UK universities from becoming fossilised.

Not only that, but most foreign students leave the country after their study is complete. If they have had a positive experience while in the UK, they are likely to act as good ambassadors for the country.

4allweknow

Does any government dept release info on the number of people who have not left UK in accordance with their Visa terms. Over the years I have known of quite a few who have exceeded their visa stay and were working cash in hand. Recently there was a newspaper article, can't recall which, discussing the proportion of foreign students from China as being 30% of total. Concern in article was that a lot of them are coerced into spying for China, being well funded for all costs. Wonder if this is also going on with other countries.
As to immigration, try getting into Canada, USA, Australia because you have family living there.!A neighbour who has a son and his family living in USA. At one time her husband was working there . Applied for Visa to visit husband, refused on that occasion, why, she had been out 3 times already in the previous 2 years visiting son and husband. Husband had to come here for his holiday. A lot of countries have qualification needs or skill requirements before being allowed to immigrate. Why has UK to be different?

Do you mean students?

There are of course students that overstay and quite a lot more attending “sham” courses that don’t actually exist, they get caught eventually. Tricky for employers because fines are heavy if you get caught employing an illegal worker.

Katie59

There are of course students that overstay and quite a lot more attending “sham” courses that don’t actually exist, they get caught eventually. Tricky for employers because fines are heavy if you get caught employing an illegal worker.

Please could you provide evidence of that. There has been a huge crackdown in recent years on so-called sham courses.

Agree, Growstuff the big problem is poor record keeping of who is coming in and out of the country. Apparently the govt has little idea of how many have overstayed, how many have actually left the country and how many have had their visa extended. It's another huge mess. I can't post evidence of this because there doesn't seem to be any accurate figures available.
It is a criminal offence to overstay so if anyone knows of students who have done this they need to report them and if employers are doing proper checks they will know if someone is legally able to work.

As 4allweknow said As to immigration, try getting into Canada, USA, Australia because you have family living there.

Both our children live in Australia. In August 2016 we applied for a Contributory Parent Visa to emigrate there. It took 6 years before we even reached the top of the pile to be asked for further details, tests and payment. By then we no longer felt such a need to join them and the thought of the upheaval didn’t appeal so we withdrew the application. The applicant list has increased considerably since then as has the waiting time. No, it’s not that easy to join family in Australia.

DaisyAnneReturns

Unless DWP have changed their rules VERY recently, non-British passport holders undertaking qualifications at undergrad level or above are very unlikely to qualify for UC, except under very extenuating circumstances, usually if a baby is involved.

I’m quite saddened to hear some of your views on migrants, however they arrived here. My MiL is receiving excellent care in a residential carehome where 80% of the carers are very lovely migrants.

Because a person arrives here on a small boat doesn’t mean they’re a violent criminal.

We are not self sufficient, or anywhere close, as a pretty small and frankly in many ways, insignificant (if self- important) country and we have a desperate shortage of teachers/nurses/carers/doctors

foxie48

Agree, Growstuff the big problem is poor record keeping of who is coming in and out of the country. Apparently the govt has little idea of how many have overstayed, how many have actually left the country and how many have had their visa extended. It's another huge mess. I can't post evidence of this because there doesn't seem to be any accurate figures available.
It is a criminal offence to overstay so if anyone knows of students who have done this they need to report them and if employers are doing proper checks they will know if someone is legally able to work.

I couldn't post evidence either. As you say, there isn't any. There are anecdotes, but nothing to quantify the issue.

Btw There are plenty of well off British families who 1) work in many different countries and take their families with them. 2) Whose children are studying at under/post grad education abroad.

I know two families who have children studying in America. I lived and attended school in California for a year or so as my Dad worked there for 18 months. I was 14 and given the choice of boarding school or accompanying my parents, amazingly I chose to go with my parents and had an amazing time.

*COSSY, I will report your post for online deformation unless you can explain where, oh where, I said or inferred anything that would require a reply which says:

I’m quite saddened to hear some of your views on migrants, however they arrived here. My MiL is receiving excellent care in a residential carehome where 80% of the carers are very lovely migrants.

Because a person arrives here on a small boat doesn’t mean they’re a violent criminal.

Cossy you have got the wrong end of the stick. no one has ever criticised or cast doubts on the level of are provided by foreign staff, but there is a problem with a poor command of English,especially regional English and their total unfamiliarity with the cultural background of those they care for.

People in care need physical and mental nurturing and that requires an understanding of the day to day lives of people over the last 50 years. the shops, the shopping, working travelling holiday areas, clothes and behaviour.

Cossy

Btw There are plenty of well off British families who 1) work in many different countries and take their families with them. 2) Whose children are studying at under/post grad education abroad.

I know two families who have children studying in America. I lived and attended school in California for a year or so as my Dad worked there for 18 months. I was 14 and given the choice of boarding school or accompanying my parents, amazingly I chose to go with my parents and had an amazing time.

Yes, but then they return home when contract finished. They don't attempt to stay and get citizenship. Oh and there is a difference between working abroad, and supporting your own family. Do the children studying in America take their parents and any other relative they can think of with them, I very much doubt it.

I want to know what online deformation is ? Sounds like a good new word. One of those new British things? Does it lead to some sort of deformity?

Freya5

Cossy

Btw There are plenty of well off British families who 1) work in many different countries and take their families with them. 2) Whose children are studying at under/post grad education abroad.

I know two families who have children studying in America. I lived and attended school in California for a year or so as my Dad worked there for 18 months. I was 14 and given the choice of boarding school or accompanying my parents, amazingly I chose to go with my parents and had an amazing time.

Yes, but then they return home when contract finished. They don't attempt to stay and get citizenship. Oh and there is a difference between working abroad, and supporting your own family. Do the children studying in America take their parents and any other relative they can think of with them, I very much doubt it.

Students in the UK don't bring their parents and other relatives with them either.

Foreign students bring about £9 billion to the UK every year.

How many other UK exports earn that much?

Our biggest problem in Australia with immigration is housing. We are seeing a sudden influx of high rise apartments in the outer suburbs of Sydney. There are literally thousands of new apartments housing new immigrants but unfortunately the local infrastructure hasn’t been upgraded to cope with the sudden increase of population. Consequently existing schools are very overcrowded, roads suffer constant traffic congestion etc. It doesn’t appear that sufficient planning was put in place before adding to our migration numbers. We need to have better thought put into new schools, roads etc to solve these difficulties.