6 Day Doctors Strike

I daren’t tell you about our experience with a PA last year. I cry when I think back over those important months when serious symptoms were missed and we just went along with recommendations that were, in the end, a complete red herring.

If 'junior' doctors are leaving the NHS and recruitment is inadequate to meet the needs then this Tory government is failing to get pay and conditions right. The so-called 'independent' review body has it's membership, terms of reference and maximum award determined by the Tories: they simply try to hide behind the 'independent' wording. Junior doctors are not mere students - many are very experienced and about to become consultants. Tory references to them as 'doctors in training' is intended to diminish them in the public eye but no-one with any sense is fooled. The fact that a settlement was achieved in Scotland suggests the Tories in England are incompetent.

ronib

Does anyone know what level doctors are who follow a consultant doing ward rounds? As part of the entourage? Are they still students who are yet to complete the five year program?

"It's an opportunity for them to discuss things in detail with the patient and with the nursing and other staff. Details vary from ward to ward, but generally: Each consultant normally does a ward round once or twice per week. Registrars and junior doctors usually do a ward round daily Monday-Fhttps://www.gwh.nhs.uk/wards-and-services/inpatients/ward-rounds/riday."

Med students who are on placement will be asked to join if it is appropriate. The number of people will vary as will the level.

Wales has not yet settled but junior doctors will be striking for the first time, later this month I think.

Urmstongran

I daren’t tell you about our experience with a PA last year. I cry when I think back over those important months when serious symptoms were missed and we just went along with recommendations that were, in the end, a complete red herring.

Urmstongran and I dare not tell you about our experiences with a London A&E department in August 2015. Only the skill of another London hospital after almost 4 weeks in intensive care saved a life.

Urmston, I saw a PA recently after a reaction to the sedative used in an unpleasant procedure I’d had 48 hours previously. I can’t imagine what it was like in your circumstances to be seen by someone much less well qualified and with little clinical experience. Your senior practice nurse is likely to have been more help.

I’m puzzled as to why these PA’s don’t study to be doctors…. Oh yes of course, they earn more. Do other countries have PAs

No PAs don’t earn more than doctors. Consultants earn substantial amounts. This route is closed to PAs.
America uses PAs.
I guess PAs are comfortable with a medium salary, less responsibility and are not in medicine to become rich.

We seem very unable to embrace new ways of working in the Uk.

Well ronib. That post sets you’re stall out wonderfully

I have read less than good reports about PAs. I don’t know if my surgery uses them - I hope not. The practice nurses are excellent, very experienced and I have full confidence in them. One is also qualified to prescribe certain drugs.

I am64 my stall isn’t full by any means. I could start by finding out which other countries use PAs and to what extent apart from America ….. I am not surprised to read that the BMA opposes the use of PAs.

We saw a prescribing nurse too. Several times. She was lovely but focused her attention on the wrong aspects, prescribed too, for far too long. We trusted her but with hindsight (always a wonderful thing) we should have asked to see a GP. For a ‘second opinion’ as to our treatment. We didn’t. It’s my biggest ever regret of my life and I (we) have to live with that. God - we didn’t want to hurt her feelings as she was so kind. How foolish were we?

I have only ever seen a doctor for something that might be serious. I have regular checks for asthma and epilepsy from the nurses and the more senior nurse dealt with a wound on my leg after a fall which developed into an ulcer (gosh, that made me feel old!).

The BMA is asking for a pause in recruitment of Medical Associate Professionals until there are guarantees that they are properly regulated and supported. This is not the same as opposing the use of them in clinical settings. It is a question of safety and clarity which I would think anyone would support.

“We have always been clear that MAPs can play an important part in NHS teams, and doctors will continue to value, respect and support individual staff they work with. But MAPs roles and responsibilities are not clearly defined. We are seeing increased instances of MAPs encroaching on the role of doctors; they are not doctors, do not have a medical degree and do not have the extensive training and depth of knowledge that doctors do. As doctors, we are worried that patients and public do not understand what this could mean in respect of the level of experience and expertise in care they receive."

www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-calls-for-immediate-pause-on-recruitment-of-physician-associates

It’s no wonder that the waiting list for treatment is growing by the minute. 7 million? What does the BMA intend to do about that?

The sad thing was we didn’t realise ‘it might be serious’ until the months went by and the symptoms became worse. Too late.

PA’s don’t need the kind of qualifications that a student requires to get into medicine. They also earn more to begin with and it comes with much less responsibility.

There is also the issue of people thinking that a PA is a doctor or is a more senior doctor than junior doctors and thereby receiving false assurance. Another problem is ‘mission creep’ in that PA’s can be asked to take on duties which they are not trained for and which they sometimes don’t understand is beyond their competence. In fact, having read Urms’s distressing post, that is possibly what has happened in that case.

My dd is at the sharp end of misdiagnoses by PA’s, she’s adamant that she will not see a PA herself and that her family should not see them either.

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

MAPs, which include PAs, do a two year course but need a health or life science degree first, you can either do the two year diploma or take a more academic route by doing an accredited master's degree which is either 1 or 2 years. More information below.
uk.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/how-to-become-physician-associate

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

Primrose53

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

But you don't!

Urmston, give yourself a break. It sounds as though, as was the case with mr i and many others, it wasn’t obvious it was serious, until it was and by then rather late to take effective action.

SueDonim, thanks for your info on PA’s. Some posters seem to believe an MA qualifies these people to replace our GP’s. The PA I saw confirmed she had a Masters but I wasn’t impressed either by her experience or people skills.
I’m not resistant to change, I’m pleased our ANP can prescribe. I’d like to see our excellent pharmacist able to prescribe. He had to refer me to my GP after a minor dog bite needed anti biotic.

foxie48

Primrose53

ronib

PAs need a masters degree. That’s a 4 year course.

Yes, I said that in my earlier post.

But you don't!

?????

Surely it also depends on initial degree and Masters subject

Thank you Iam and SueDonim for your kind comments. I probably overshared this evening and stirred up emotions which lie just below the surface.