6 Day Doctors Strike

Quite. I know of no other public or private sector employer which makes such an incredible contribution to the employee’s pension. However I suspect that the pension contribution is not made in actual cash today, but rather along the lines of a promise for the future. Nevertheless, becoming a consultant in a few years with the ability to do private work on the side and retiring early on a very fat pension is something that isn’t focused on. It should be.

Primrose53

Caught the tail end of a discussion about junior doctors strike just now.

They explained what a Physician Associate is. Someone with a Masters degree and 2 years training rather than the 6 years that Junior doctors do. It also said they are paid quite a bit more. Didn’t know that.

As I understand it the Physician's Associate doesn't have the salary prospects of a "junior" doctor and obviously won't become a consultant.
There are also Nurse Consultants whom we found to be very knowledgeable and competent indeed when my husband was in the cardiac unit.

ronib

I wonder why the pension contribution can’t be reduced from 20 to 10 percent in the first two years of working and the difference given in pay?
It seems fairly obvious that the last two years of working life are the most highly paid for medics and any shortfall in pension contributions could be made at that point. Or some such arrangement?

That sounds sensible, particularly as many experienced consultants are leaving the profession because there is a limit on what they can pay into their pension scheme.

Idon`t know any of this... I admit it,, another example of how corrupt our society is? just wondering

what I do know is that I read that so called topadministrators or whatever title they get given, without medical qualifications get far more pay than the doctors... all wrong to my simple mind, but deep sighs, that is the way of this country.

‘MaizieD

Pointless to discuss this, really. We've been over and over it before. 'Junior' doctors are not newly qualified or still in training. The term covers doctors at every level below that of Consultant.
All the doctors are asking is for their pay level to be restored to the level they were earning before Osborne got going with his unnecessary 'austerity' programme more than a decade ago. The government is refusing to restore those levels because it is still strongly opposed to spending on public services. It's a face-off between the two.
I'm on the side of the doctors, though I appreciate that it's not causing me or my family any pain or inconvenience, so it's easy to say. All the public employees who have been disgracefully underpaid since 2010 deserve better pay and I would support any of them if on strike.’

Well said, I totally agree with this.
The Tories voted against the NHS before it’s creation in 1948.
They are trying (quite successfully) to destroy it now.
Let’s hope we can get rid of them soon, and have a government that actually cares about and supports the NHS.

I retired from the NHS a few years ago and was a director so I know exactly how much doctors earn and I am disappointed to hear the BMA not tell the whole truth over any doctors salary. All junior doctors have to do nights which gives them a approx 35% uplift in their salary. This is not mentioned anywhere. In addition to this many of them chose to work extra shifts over their 40 hours and believe me they can earn a lot of money doing this.
However the real shock is what the BMA recommend consultants should be paid to cover additional work ie things like covering the lingering junior dr strike. I have just down loaded this from the BMA website to get the most up to date figures. These rates range from £161 AN HOUR to £269 an hour.

So a consultant covering a junior dr night shift of 12 hours will earn £3228 for 12 hours work. This will be in addition to their normal salary.

My ex colleagues tell me many consultants are earning £10k plus during the junior drs strike days in addition to their salaries ( and don’t forget the clinical excellence awards but that’s another issue)

The junior drs of today will be consultants one day so I personally don’t support them atall and feel that the BMA is using them as political pawns. I know lots of doctors who do not support these strikes due to the harm it is causing patients whilst colleagues are financially benefiting.

I am sure some people will disagree with me which is fine but the facts about salaries are out there is people what to see them. Don’t believe everything you are told by the left wing BMA.

Granny Ven the only people trying to destroy the NHS is the striking workforce. What evidence do you have that the tarries are trying to destroy it? Because they won’t give in to ridiculous pay rise requests?

Has it not occurred to you that any employee private or public sector has had a real terms pay cut over the last few years?

Why do you think the govt does not care. Do you have any idea how much money is pumped into the NHS?

👏👏👏 Optimistic1. Well said.

Honestly, I feel that they are highly trained and experienced even when “newly qualified” and not all “junior doctors” are newly qualified.

Given what this govt “wasted” just on PPE and what many doctors went through during Covid, I think they fully deserve pay which reflects their worth.

Personally I think doctors are worth far more than many currently earn.

Yes, it will affect patients, which includes my husband waiting for two non life threatening operations.

Optomistic1

Just out of interest. are you clinically qualified or were you, what many of us would consider “a quango” or “pen pusher”

Very interesting Optimistic. I wonder why this isn't all over the media? Something about not letting facts get in the way of a good story perhaps?

Indeed Aveline. I have never believed this £14 per hour rubbish.

NHS Resolution pays out on medical claims for negligence in the NHS and they’re very large sums indeed.
It feels as if the NHS is not working as it should.

Just like to say to those saying eye infections are easy to treat I spent over 30 years getting the wrong treatment antibiotics and antibiotic eye ointment for up to 9 each year really bad eye infections from various GPs. Went to Bristol eye hospital and they did swabs one Easter when GP was closed. It was a viral eye infection caused by coldsore virus. Had antivirals and now only get it once or twice a year. Saw a consultant at the Eye hospital who knew what it was. Result is amoxicillin no longer effective for anything with me as I've had so much needlessly. It's not just easy to diagnose.

Interested to understand why the poster here went to a local A&E for conjunctivitis?

Surely using A&E in this way instead of her GP, Optician or local pharmacist is one of the many reasons our NHS is struggling?

Cossy I was a clinician who moved chose to move into management. Although I no longer treated patients I believed by leading the clinicians and facilitating them to do their jobs I was in fact helping patients. Most ‘ pen pushers’ feel the same in the NHS. They care as much about patient care as any clinician does but again that is never reported in the news…. NHS could not work without clinical staff but it could also not work without managers, cleaners, buyers, accountants etc. no one person or group of staff is more important than another in then NHS it’s just that some have a bigger voice….( and union!).

Cossy I was directed by the receptionist at my surgery to go to A&E for treatment of conjunctivitis. What more can I say?
It is a painful condition.

Cossy you would be horrified to hear how much doctors earn during covid….. and I mean horrified. It was eye watering amounts ( for many different reasons ) but some drs absolutely earn a fortune during this period. And before anyone asks I know cos I saw the salaries being paid every month.

Optomistic1

Why do you think the govt does not care. Do you have any idea how much money is pumped into the NHS?

I wonder how much is wasted in incompetence and inefficiency? For example, appointment notifications sent out after the date of the appointments so that the staff waste so much time waiting for patients who don't turn up because they never received their appointment.
Repeat prescriptions where patients just collect medication whether or not they need it.
Areas of the NHS which do not have enough money allocated to provide an efficient service, eg A&E so that ambulances are backed up with sick patients in car parks for hours; one person we know spent 24 hours in the ambulance outside the hospital waiting for admittance.

I was chatting to a family member the other day who worked in the NHS and she said that many members of their team had left due to the stress of the job, which of course, places enormous burdens on those left to cope.

The NHS in so many areas is just not working, whether or not there are strikes. It doesn't need a makeover, it needs a revolution.

I was recently phoned by a 'clinician' at my GP surgery...She was very polite and helpful and after discussion she said she would increase one of my regular medications to help resolve a specific issue...
When I went online earlier this week to order my repeat meds, I noticed that the phone call I had from the clinician was actually a Physicians Associate...I've never heard of this title/role in the NHS...so on checking this out, was amazed to read that they earn around 44,000 on entry after the masters degree/training etc which some have confirmed is a 2-4 yr course...also, I read that THEY CANNOT PRESCRIBE...well my PA did and am concerned that maybe i should be phoning my designated GP and ask for assurance or confirmation...its still a nightmare to get thru on phone and don't really wish to visit the surgery and let all in Reception know of my reason for a GP call on one of their PAs prescribing ...
I learn so much on here...thank you GNs

If the NHS were staffed properly there wouldn’t be a need for overtime or agency staff. The govt is quite happy to pay large sums out for these but not prepared to pay doctors a decent salary. Night shifts aren’t a piece of cake when you are the only dr on duty covering dozens of patients.

I fully agree it needs a revolution but it will never happen on our lifetime.

However I do think there is lots of things the public could do not help teh situation - ie don’t just order relate prescriptions of you don’t need them ( you can’t blame the govt for that! ) only go to A&E with an accident or an emergency… look after your self with diet and exercise. People just expect the NHS to fix everything these days…

NHS could not work without clinical staff but it could also not work without managers, cleaners, buyers, accountants etc. no one person or group of staff is more important than another in then NHS
I agree but how efficiently is it being run?

Some staff seem to be working under extreme stress and pressure especially in A&E and on some wards, yet go to some out-patient clinics and they seem to be very relaxed and in fact over-staffed with nurses.

I think it is just plain greed on the doctors' parts. Yes, they work hard, but there are many, many people who work just as hard for a fraction of their wages. The doctors don't seem to care about the people falling ill, the backlogs, anything except getting paid. And their timing - to cause maximum impact. There they were yesterday on their picket lines, some smirking - I wanted to slap them.

Did anybody ever see a poor doctor. The retired doctors that I know live in amazing houses, drive posh cars, go on worldwide holidays several times a year, etc, etc. This is what these greedy doctors should bear in mind.

I am speaking from the point of view of someone with two parents, both with cancer, both held up in interminable queues and waiting lists. Those doctors disgust me.