6 Day Doctors Strike

I also agree! Even those who should know what a Junior Doctor is, often do not.

Some years ago, I needed a blood transfusion. It was the first week in August, and a newly qualified doctor tried a few times to insert a cannula, but in the end, the registrar did it.

When I was a child in the 50s I had severe asthma. The village GP was a sole practitioner. He never complained about night calls and was in the surgery as usual next day and also making house calls. He was a lovely and patient man. I doubt that what GPs and junior doctors do today is remotely comparable to his devotion to his patients.

This is what worries me too. Where is their compassion?

Why is it that society expects doctors to be selfless?

The NHS has become a hot potato politically. No party will address it IMO. Reading these posts, especially from people who have insider knowledge, informs us of the lies told all round.
I realise we are now in 2024 but the news on all channels, showed a hospital yesterday with so many “managers” plus a matron in wearing full make up including false eyelashes. Friends who trained in the NHS years ago always spoke of standards. I haven’t heard much of that recently.

If it’s your vocation then surely devotion to your patients is your main purpose in life - not striking for more money, misleading the public as to what your pay package is actually worth, and putting people’s lives at risk.

The ignorance here is striking. Doctors have long training because there’s a lot to learn.
Nurses are not doctors.
Physician associates are not doctors.
We can only get holistic treatment with knowledgeable, experienced medics.
Eg. A psychiatrist shouldn’t be someone who simply prescribes. He should have a medical background so he can diagnose comorbidities. That’s why counselling can be dangerous when people need to see a psych.
Same applies in all specialities.
There is no quick answer to training.

I saw a physicians associate on Tuesday. She found a lump I couldn't feel in my breast, referred me as an emergency and I'm in hospital on the 17th, seeing a breast surgeon. She was marvellous.

I disagree Germanshepherdsmum. Why should people who have a vocation be paid less than people who are in other professions of equivalent or lower worth to society?

Hope all goes well for you Ilovedragons. You got in the system speedily so you are ahead of the curve now. Gives you the best chance.

You can’t compare a doctor paid by the taxpayer with a partner in a City law firm paid over £1m a year by his clients. Consider priests, the most obvious example of a calling - poorly paid but do they strike? No, they’re there when needed, day or night.

Germanshepherdsmum

You can’t compare a doctor paid by the taxpayer with a partner in a City law firm paid over £1m a year by his clients. Consider priests, the most obvious example of a calling - poorly paid but do they strike? No, they’re there when needed, day or night.

Why? Because it’s the way it’s always been. That doesn’t mean it’s right, or it can’t change. A priest isn’t really a comparitor either, because the training is shorter, the qualifications for entry not so high. I’m not going to argue about value to society in that context. We will have to agree to differ because I can see no reason for a vocation being an excuse for doctors to be paid less than others who have undergone equivalent training.

He who pays decides what he is willing to pay for the service offered.

Optomistic1

Thank you for being so candid.

I do have relatives in the NHS on both the nursing and doctor side, so am a little aware of how much they can earn, especially if they decide to pull a 12 hour night shift extra shifts.

I’m aware our NHS is less than perfect and is well funded. There’s lots wrong, but I still feel the starting salaries if qualified doctors and nurses doesn’t reflect their training and expertise, though I have to agree that their pensions outstrip any other public sector pensions and agree this could be reviewed and pay increased in their first five or so years and pensions reduced, but undoubtedly this isn’t how it works and no doubt the funding model for pensions wouldn’t support this.

The Tories are determined to destroy the NHS…junior doctors leave university with thousands and thousands of pounds of debt, they can have up to 10 years of experience…it’s ridiculous that they have all that responsibility but can still be paid less than a manager of a supermarket. They need to be paid properly if they are to remain in the NHS/UK…

Having worked in the City (London) for many years within financial services, prior to working local in the public sector. I’m afraid I too agree with GSM, you simply cannot compare commercial businesses with public sector works. Our country, like all of the Western World, works on an economic model and thus those generating income are going to be paid the most. Doesn’t make a top barrister any more important than a Doctor.

I think carers and nursery workers do extremely worthwhile and important and stressful roles, yet some are barely paid more than minimum wage.

I do understand you are comparing like for like in terms of academic achievement and specialised knowledge, but you’re not comparing those roles in terms of commercial acumen.

Doesn’t make it morally right, but this isn’t a moral discussion.

Whilst I do support the junior doctors right to strike, I accept this will cause patients issues and delays and just really don’t know what the entire answers to this are or should be. Personally, I’d pay them what I feel they’re worth, clearly we all have differing views.

It absolutely is a moral discussion when people say that doctors should be selfless because of their vocation Cossy.

Optomistic1

I retired from the NHS a few years ago and was a director so I know exactly how much doctors earn and I am disappointed to hear the BMA not tell the whole truth over any doctors salary. All junior doctors have to do nights which gives them a approx 35% uplift in their salary. This is not mentioned anywhere. In addition to this many of them chose to work extra shifts over their 40 hours and believe me they can earn a lot of money doing this.
However the real shock is what the BMA recommend consultants should be paid to cover additional work ie things like covering the lingering junior dr strike. I have just down loaded this from the BMA website to get the most up to date figures. These rates range from £161 AN HOUR to £269 an hour.

So a consultant covering a junior dr night shift of 12 hours will earn £3228 for 12 hours work. This will be in addition to their normal salary.

My ex colleagues tell me many consultants are earning £10k plus during the junior drs strike days in addition to their salaries ( and don’t forget the clinical excellence awards but that’s another issue)

The junior drs of today will be consultants one day so I personally don’t support them atall and feel that the BMA is using them as political pawns. I know lots of doctors who do not support these strikes due to the harm it is causing patients whilst colleagues are financially benefiting.

I am sure some people will disagree with me which is fine but the facts about salaries are out there is people what to see them. Don’t believe everything you are told by the left wing BMA.

I wish you’d be invited onto a GBNews panel to discuss these figures with a BMA union doctor! Now that’s a discussion many would tune in to watch.

I know of a handful of doctors who have cancelled their BMA membership subscriptions as they feel that union has become too militant. I suppose they’ve joined another (less strident) union.

The point I’d like to make is that many of these young doctors weren’t working for the NHS in 2008. They joined after and must have been okay about the pay when they did so?

Yes, don’t agree with GSM with this particular comment. As I said earlier, I DO support this strike, and I do agree that their starting salaries are too low (imo) and surely not every junior doctor can ultimately become a consultant? Is this how it works? Surely there’s far less consultants in each hospital than registrars? I’m not quite sure all hospital doctors will become consultants?

No one should be paid less because their role is considered “vocational”, I guess the moral issue is how all of our lives are dependent on our economic climate and that many people do indeed value those generating income more highly than those educating our children and looking after our health.

I don’t like this, but I guess like many of us see no easy way to fix this.

There’s so much wrong in our society I sometimes feel we’ve all lost sight of what really matters in life.

To me, without our health and without education our lives are a little worthless!

I’m extremely grateful we have an NHS, they’ve saved my life and that of my husband’s and in earlier times both of my parents lives.

Police and prison officers are not allowed to strike and their salaries are not huge. I think it’s time for the government of any hue to bring in legislation to protect patients and stop doctors from striking.

The present government plans to do that, and rightly so. Members of the armed forces are also not allowed to strike - not handsomely paid but they too have huge responsibilities and risk (and of course frequently lose) their lives.

According to the gift’s own website, PA’s should not be prescribing. healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2023/11/03/physician-and-anaesthesia-associate-roles-in-the-nhs-fact-sheet/

If you don’t wish to click on the link, this is a quote. Can they prescribe medication?

PAs and AAs cannot currently prescribe medication as this is only considered for roles that are statutorily regulated.

Be aware of who you are dealing with.

‘Government’s’ own website.

Just looking at the junior doctors on TV happy smiling faces while people will die from delayed appointments and my niece in agony for 14 days on their previous strike. Do will really want these people with no care or compassion caring for us when we are desperately ill? Government could open up immigration to qualified doctors abroad and hopefully get rid of these charlatans.