Another Tired Kicking For The Sick And Disabled By Rishi

Cossy, what you describe is unheard of in this school. As to being unsympathetic and non empathetic I find that ridiculous. I am making the point that people who are not sick and are pretending to be ill are causing issues. Not those with genuine illnesses. Try not to read into my words that which I do not mean. I am a migraine sufferer and know what it’s like, I have never once pretended to have one but if some of them have them as often as claim, they really should see a doctor. I have preventers and medications to help when I have one, I have learnt to live with it. It’s hard to talk to people who have a set idea of how people are just because of how they themselves are. Please do not insult my dedicated and wonderful daughter, she’s a fantastic teacher and has to manage this situation daily. It’s not easy and the time wasters need to stop. Why would you not want the best for the the next generation?

Freya, even a spoiled ballot paper is a vote. It expresses the disgust with politicians that many people are feeling right now. Please use your vote even if it's only to express your anger.

It’s not ‘a kicking for the sick and disabled’, it’s a kicking for those who can work but don’t want to. And rightly so.

Fair enough but who decides who is genuinely ill and who is swinging the lead? It's extremely hard to discern and is most certainly a job for qualified medical professionals ie doctors not some sort of renamed civil service functionary.

Nanatoone: Please try your best to understand that despite the so-called “robust” procedures, there are people swinging the lead and they are well. I find your comment quite patronising.
There will be people swinging the lead in every walk of life, not just teaching.
It is the responsibility of senior management in your daughter's school to address it.

I would not wish those interviews with clinicians, LA HR and DWP, staff on anyone. I can assure you they were extremely robust and upsetting.
Fortunately my husband, a former LA HR manager was my advocate and able to speak for me. I was in tears much of the time and couldn't cope. Ten years later, I still can't bear to think about it.
Your information comes from your daughter, my experience is personal.

You have absoluely no conception of what the procedures are.

Goodness - this letter to the Editor from The Telegraph newspaper was an eye opener!

“ SIR – As a GP I very much welcome Rishi Sunak’s proposals to remove from GPs the task of signing sick notes (report, April 19).

In a 10-minute consultation it is almost impossible to assess thoroughly a person’s fitness for work, especially if the problem is related to mental health or stress. The GP – whom the patient feels should be on their side – is placed in a very difficult position. The result is that many doctors avoid a long and difficult argument with the patient by caving in and signing, even when they don’t feel the note is justified. Many people are now off work on the basis of a brief phone consultation.

I have had patients tell me that their back pain is so bad they can barely move or walk – only to see them later in the week lifting heavy bags of shopping at the supermarket with apparently no difficulty at all. I have also had patients come from the benefits office, where they have been told to get their doctor to sign them off sick as they will receive more money than on unemployment benefit and won’t then have to look for work.”

So sad to read about people being described as " flakes" With any umbrella system, there will be the odd few who abuse it. I've seen it with my own eyes for example at a Foodbank.

But most people, especially teachers are hardworking, decent people.
Many have been driven to the edge by the sheer stress of surviving. Austerity, the pandemic, increased work loads, high mortgage payments, it doesn't take much to enter a down ward spriral of poor health.

Gone are the days when colleagues rallied round, sent flowers and so on. Its every person for her/ himself.

There will be people swinging the lead in every walk of life, not just teaching.

I think this is the fundamental point nannatone was making. I don't think mentioning the teaching profession meant she only meant teachers.

The government wants to reduce the cost of Welfare Benefits, so is now targeting the long-term sick and disabled as malingerers. True compassion.

People can be genuinely unable to work for many reasons. Long Covid and delays in getting NHS treatment are two of the major factors for the increase in claimants.

A GP’s sick note is just the starting point to claim benefits and is followed by assessments and frequent meetings with a work coach, with sanctions for those who do not attend( even if they are in hospital!) I have little faith that the proposed support for mental health will be forthcoming. Sanctions are easier and cheaper to implement.
If they cut out the GP’s opinion, as is proposed, we are reliant on poorly-trained, target-driven assessors, who do not know the claimant’s history. The system does not serve them well, given the huge number of appeals against bad decisions and long delays.
The NHS is on its knees, but let’s blame the patients, why not?

Nanatoone, you are absolutely right.

As a teacher you are aware of the families who avoid work and exploit the benefit system; their parents would be horrified if they realised quite how much their children know and innocently pass on, but knowing and proving it are two different things.
It is these families who are being targeted, not the genuinely ill and disabled. And their doctors know it too.

And the response to this will be: 'they are only doing it for their families.'

according to the daily mail you just call your dr reception and they give you a sick note and you get loads of free government money

I don;t know why we aren't all doing it, sounds so easy and who would sniff at this free money

Interesting letter from the GP Urmstongran.

I believe that this new directive (or whatever it is) is not directed at those who are in employment, and are suffering sickness, but it is directed towards people who don’t work at all and claim benefits. I maybe wrong but that’s how I read it.
I do know that significant numbers of people who are in their 50/60s have not returned to work since the pandemic. I don’t know what their reasons are but I know that government is concerned about this. I also know that there are a significant number of younger people who have never had a job of any sort since the pandemic and live on benefits or are dependent on their parents. I suspect theses two groups are the ones government have in their sights. I have to say I have no idea what the answer to this is, but clearly we do need people to go to work and to pay taxes so that those in need can be paid the benefits they legitimately need.

Sunak is appealing to those I'm all right Jacks who have no understanding of how other people have to struggle with ill health or just down right bad luck. How low is he going to sink after this?

That's true maddyone, people like my daughter me who has the mental age of a two year old having to produce sick notes every 3 months so she gets her universal credit

Parsley3 👍

It’s obvious JaneJudge that your daughter shouldn’t have to produce a sick note every three months. Surely she should be on disability benefits. My DiL’s nephew has Downs Syndrome and doesn’t have to continually produce sick notes. He is disabled and his mother is his carer. He is nineteen.

It’s like a bloody rotation of ‘everything we’ve messed up is other people’s fault’… ‘scroungers’…the EU…immigrants…strikers…immigrants…’still the EU…’scroungers’…

She gets disability benefits as well maddyone. It is clear to everyone she shouldn't have to produce a sick note, she still has to. It is the rules

and what a waste of time for her GP!

keepingquiet

So many people are flakes? How many exactly? Remarks like these are what cause people to blame those on the bottom for our social ills.

In our hardworking wider family of around 30 people only one I would consider a 'flake' as you put it. Yes, it makes me angry and I would rather the money went to genuine cases of need, but in any system there will be a few bad apples.

We can live in a society where people are supported by those who may need support themselves sometimes without other people blaming the poor instead of those in power like Sunak whose family are 'earning' more money every day than you can imagine.

It is time we got back to being a country where everyone was valued for the contribution they can make without whipping those at that bottom.

One day your daughter may be sick herself and need that support.

Agree with you entirely keepingquiet. If someone has been off sick for a year they will not be getting any sick pay from their employer. Also migraine is a very debilitating condition - I know from very painful experience. Thankfully now at 70 I don't suffer from them much, but in my 20's - 50's could be in bed for up to 4 days unable to function. Call me a 'flake' if you like - I'm still working in the public sector (in a stressful job, though teaching a class of young children I would find even more stressful). I have also recently been ill with Covid and was off for two weeks - my job needs me to be totally fit and mentally alert. I think Sunak is just looking for the right-wing vote as commented before. Sick (literally) of the scapegoating of the less fortunate, sick and disabled in this country.

JaneJudge you’re right, it’s a total waste of time for your daughter’s GP.

maddyone

Interesting letter from the GP Urmstongran.

I believe that this new directive (or whatever it is) is not directed at those who are in employment, and are suffering sickness, but it is directed towards people who don’t work at all and claim benefits. I maybe wrong but that’s how I read it.
I do know that significant numbers of people who are in their 50/60s have not returned to work since the pandemic. I don’t know what their reasons are but I know that government is concerned about this. I also know that there are a significant number of younger people who have never had a job of any sort since the pandemic and live on benefits or are dependent on their parents. I suspect theses two groups are the ones government have in their sights. I have to say I have no idea what the answer to this is, but clearly we do need people to go to work and to pay taxes so that those in need can be paid the benefits they legitimately need.

I listened to Sunak’s speech yesterday and these groups are exactly what the government is targeting,

Btw I am not an ‘all right Jack’, Parsley. I have suffered from severe depression and anxiety for many years but I instinctively knew that it would be far better for me to work than to stay at home. It seems that people with those conditions are amongst those who could work but prefer to stay at home on sickness benefits. It can feel impossible to drag yourself out of bed and face the world but if you have a job to go to you have to do it and it is by far the best thing for your own wellbeing and self-respect.

Nanatoone

Cossy, what you describe is unheard of in this school. As to being unsympathetic and non empathetic I find that ridiculous. I am making the point that people who are not sick and are pretending to be ill are causing issues. Not those with genuine illnesses. Try not to read into my words that which I do not mean. I am a migraine sufferer and know what it’s like, I have never once pretended to have one but if some of them have them as often as claim, they really should see a doctor. I have preventers and medications to help when I have one, I have learnt to live with it. It’s hard to talk to people who have a set idea of how people are just because of how they themselves are. Please do not insult my dedicated and wonderful daughter, she’s a fantastic teacher and has to manage this situation daily. It’s not easy and the time wasters need to stop. Why would you not want the best for the the next generation?

I haven’t insulted you or your daughter, we clearly need to agree to disagree.

My grandfather, Aunt and cousin were all teachers, as is my daughter, where have I said I do not “want the best for the next generation” Do you, or have you, ever worked in a school? I was involved in schools locally as I was not only deputy chair of two governing bodies I was also chair of Finance and HR governing body at a large Primary School and was actually involved in meeting with both teaching assistants and teachers re sickness. I also worked within schools as part of my job at one point. I have a good clear understanding of schools and their processes and policies.

I would respectfully suggest that if you don’t work in your daughters school or any school you’ll not be too familiar or know all their policies or processes.

I feel sorry for anyone, including you and your daughter, who suffers from any any debilitating conditions such as migraines. I too have some long term conditions, I managed them as best as I could, but still had s fair amount of time off sick and had to take early retirement. We all manage our health differently, what one person can deal with, another cannot. Your posts do come across as completely lacking in empathy and I make no apology for this, you have no idea what is wrong with the staff at your daughter’s job, or whether “they are making up being sick”, and one can only assume you gain all your intel second hand from your daughter, who clearly appears to complain a lot about her colleagues!

GSM

I completely agree that for many, indeed most, people with depression that work is absolutely the best thing for them.

The biggest issue or flaw is within our current benefits system. The same Universal Credit system has to deal with people with mild disabilities, people with severe disabilities, people with learning difficulties, people with a broken leg, people with MS, etc etc all lumped together in one set of statistics. That needs to addressed before GPs are “ordered” not to issue fit notes!

Cossy, imo there needs to be a separate benefit for those who will never be able to work. Apparently this used to be the case 'in the old days'