Another Tired Kicking For The Sick And Disabled By Rishi

JaneJudge

Cossy, imo there needs to be a separate benefit for those who will never be able to work. Apparently this used to be the case 'in the old days'

Yes, there does and whilst UC was meant to help those closest to to the labour market and more easily able to it utterly fails those who, through no fault of their own, will never work or be able to return to work.

Cabbie21

The government wants to reduce the cost of Welfare Benefits, so is now targeting the long-term sick and disabled as malingerers. True compassion.

People can be genuinely unable to work for many reasons. Long Covid and delays in getting NHS treatment are two of the major factors for the increase in claimants.

A GP’s sick note is just the starting point to claim benefits and is followed by assessments and frequent meetings with a work coach, with sanctions for those who do not attend( even if they are in hospital!) I have little faith that the proposed support for mental health will be forthcoming. Sanctions are easier and cheaper to implement.
If they cut out the GP’s opinion, as is proposed, we are reliant on poorly-trained, target-driven assessors, who do not know the claimant’s history. The system does not serve them well, given the huge number of appeals against bad decisions and long delays.
The NHS is on its knees, but let’s blame the patients, why not?

Absolutely!

Marydoll

*Flappergirl*, I felt the same as you, when I read the comment about not voting.
Women have fought so hard to get the vote.
If everyone did the same, what a even bigger mess we would be in.

I struggle to get to our polling station, with no parking nearby and at the top of a steep hill.
Consequently, I have arranged to vote permanently by post.

I think if someone really objects to all the candidates for whatever reason, they should spoil the ballot paper and send it back anyway.
At least a protest has been made.

maddyone

It’s obvious JaneJudge that your daughter shouldn’t have to produce a sick note every three months. Surely she should be on disability benefits. My DiL’s nephew has Downs Syndrome and doesn’t have to continually produce sick notes. He is disabled and his mother is his carer. He is nineteen.

DLA or PIP is a different benefit and disabled people not in work are entitled to claim both disability benefits and Universal Credit. Until the “assessment” is done by the (rubbish) third party company fit notes have to be produced. Even once the assessment is completed, it’s not “lifelong” even for lifelong conditions, so regular assessments are done. This is supposed to be changing so lifelong conditions only have to be assessed once.

If the GP who is obviously medically trained isn’t going to do the assessment for a fit note will there be another level of bureaucracy put in place and what will that cost? I have GC looking for work and getting disillusioned when they hear nothing from prospective employers, where are all the jobs

A lot of posters are generalising on here and saying that everyone with a sick note from the GP is genuinely unable to work and the Government should be lined up against a wall and shot for their latest attempt to put a stop to it. That isn't the case. Whilst many are genuine there are those who are jumping on the sick note bandwagon to avoid getting a job. They usually cite mental health issues which are not always visual and a quick Google will tell the dishonest ones what symptoms to mention. Gen Z's are very vocal in their reluctance to work. Clearly something has to be done. Rising benefits are unsustainable and the country needs those people who can to go to work and the genuine ones who cannot to be properly cared for.

I have had very bad clinical depression too. I was signed off by my doctor for six weeks, after which I returned to work and continued to work for a further ten years until retirement. GSM is right, even if a person needs a short recovery time, it is best to return to work as soon as possible and to get back into a normal routine. That is best for your mental health.

If Sunak wanted to reduce the benefits bill, he could do a number of things: massively increase the minimum wage (most benefit claimants are working); introduce rent controls (housing benefit is a huge cost); invest heavily in supporting local authorities to build social housing and remove the right to buy; allow simple and minimal value compulsory purchase of empty and underused property for social housing; invest substantially in reducing NHS waiting lists; strengthen and enforce the laws that stop employers discriminating against people with disabilities and mental health conditions; reform the benefit system so that it genuinely encourages a return to work for those who are able (see, for example, Income Support until c1988, when wages were increased to the amount ben fits would have been, plus an allowance for work-related costs including some childcare); there are so many positive actions he (or any government) could make, instead of just constantly reading from the populist script and looking for groups/institutions to scapegoat.

My last post was in response to GSM but my son and his wife called in and I got distracted for a while.

The problem with a directive like this is that it will more likely hurt the genuinely sick and disabled rather than deter those that know how to navigate the system to their advantage.

The other issue is that when you look at the jobs market as it is today, it's obvious that a lot of it is low-paid, menial work (possibly also exhausting work) with unregulated hours which make it difficult for anyone with family commitments.

Germanshepherdsmum says that work is the best option if you are suffering from depression. For me this was also true - but that was because I had a good job which was relatively well-paid, and a sympathetic work environment, all of which was conducive to me making the effort. The fact that my manager "understood" made it all the easier to get out of bed in the morning, join my work colleagues, and be part of normal society. My GP - the same GP I'd had for many years, knew me - encouraged me to work but would've signed me off if he thought necessary. I'd already had a home-visit from a psychiatrist (unheard of now) who was 'encouraging' and, in short, I felt I had people on my side so didn't feel isolated or desperate, and it had a huge effect on my recovery.

Compare that with how things are now...

JaneJudge

Cossy, imo there needs to be a separate benefit for those who will never be able to work. Apparently this used to be the case 'in the old days'

Absolutely agree with this.

Maddyone work was what kept me going, when I could easily have given in.

Chronic fatigue and pain was part of my daily life. Work and my love for my job gave me a purpose to get up in the morning.
I was devastated when I was deemed unfit to work. It took me a long time to come to terms with it.

Sarnia

A lot of posters are generalising on here and saying that everyone with a sick note from the GP is genuinely unable to work and the Government should be lined up against a wall and shot for their latest attempt to put a stop to it. That isn't the case. Whilst many are genuine there are those who are jumping on the sick note bandwagon to avoid getting a job. They usually cite mental health issues which are not always visual and a quick Google will tell the dishonest ones what symptoms to mention. Gen Z's are very vocal in their reluctance to work. Clearly something has to be done. Rising benefits are unsustainable and the country needs those people who can to go to work and the genuine ones who cannot to be properly cared for.

Goodness me, accusing us of generalising then making your comment “Gen Z’s are very vocal in their reluctance to work”

So born late 1990’s to 2010?

I know many young people of these ages, including our three youngest children, 21, 23 & 26, all happily working, some saving for their own homes, some already on the property ladder!

Siope

If Sunak wanted to reduce the benefits bill, he could do a number of things: massively increase the minimum wage (most benefit claimants are working); introduce rent controls (housing benefit is a huge cost); invest heavily in supporting local authorities to build social housing and remove the right to buy; allow simple and minimal value compulsory purchase of empty and underused property for social housing; invest substantially in reducing NHS waiting lists; strengthen and enforce the laws that stop employers discriminating against people with disabilities and mental health conditions; reform the benefit system so that it genuinely encourages a return to work for those who are able (see, for example, Income Support until c1988, when wages were increased to the amount ben fits would have been, plus an allowance for work-related costs including some childcare); there are so many positive actions he (or any government) could make, instead of just constantly reading from the populist script and looking for groups/institutions to scapegoat.

Could not agree more! Many people forget that at least 48% of people on YC are working as UC replaced both housing benefit and Working Tax Credits.

I am sure that is true for many people who have a job to go to.
My relative has long term mental health illness which means she has never managed to hold down a job. After a crisis it took four years for her to get the proper help she needed for her MH. A further six years to begin to get almost into a position where with the right support she might manage some part time work. I cannot foresee what new support can be found given how stretched the NHS MH services are already. I agree it would be a good thing but if she first loses her benefits that will send her back into a state of extreme anxiety, unable to step outside the front door.
I fear a system which cannot do the job which is needed.

Marydoll you’re right, work definitely give you a reason to get up in the morning.

People should try self employment and see what it’s like when you’re ill! Most people I know in that situation just carry on regardless and work through the pain or stress.

Just like “stop the boats” and the suggestion that we leave the ECHR.

This ‘ain’t’ going to happen.

This is purely for the potential reform voters.

Things are getting desperate.

It’s very necessary to do something Wwm. Too many people who can work are relying on sickness benefits. That hits productivity and it sends the benefits bill through the roof. Why should those who keep on regardless pay for those who don’t want to?

Oh! And well done all those stalwarts who work through regardless how ill they are.

I clearly swung the lead when I found myself at work not knowing who I was, where I was or anyone around me as a result of severe work related stress. I had been telling my manager for months that my work load was far too excessive.I was off for 2 months as I recovered from a total breakdown. I am clearly someone who doesn’t know the meaning of hard work and the incentive to get up every morning. My original job was eventually split between 3 full time posts.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s very necessary to do something Wwm. Too many people who can work are relying on sickness benefits. That hits productivity and it sends the benefits bill through the roof. Why should those who keep on regardless pay for those who don’t want to?

I would be interested in how many is too many. Has Sunak provided a breakdown of the figures?

No?

I thought not.

It would be worth looking at the impact of lockdown on peoples working habits, it has completely changed them, the impact was first felt in the over 50s and it is now impacting the younger generation. If we do what was a basically an experiment on society we cant be surprised when it impacts societal behaviour.

WWM, I had been telling my manager for months that my work load was far too excessive, I had the same conversation with my HT, all to no avail.

It all came out in the wash eventually, when he had to employ more staff to cover my overloaded remit.

Marydoll

*WWM*, I had been telling my manager for months that my work load was far too excessive, I had the same conversation with my HT, all to no avail.

It all came out in the wash eventually, when he had to employ more staff to cover my overloaded remit.

Just think how you would have felt though, if like me you had a total breakdown and was off sick for a couple of months as you recovered, to now read that particularly those with mental health issues were often found to be swinging the lead.

He is hitting the most vulnerable - with what he knows will never come to fruition, but doing it to gain votes from the right of the party, as you can clearly see from this thread.

If many of those