Immigration and migrants

Ooh! I think we should have a National Stereotype Day! At least it would be better than having one every day.

BevSec

I completely agree with you GSM. I have spoken to a man who has worked closely with the immigrants and he said they put their own comfort ahead of their wives and children. People say they should respect our culture, but who is going to force them to do this? Our culture is very alien to them, I have seen this in Marrakesh.

I’ve spent a lot of time in Turkey as I have a very good friend who has a beautiful apartment there. Many many Turkish Muslim men absolutely adore their wives and children. My husband’s niece is married to a Turkish Muslim, they live here. He worships her and cherishes their beautiful son, who at 2.5years is learning both English and Turkish.

Please don’t generalise, many Muslims, men and women, have moved into this century and are embracing western ideas, as well their own culture.

growstuff

Ooh! I think we should have a National Stereotype Day! At least it would be better than having one every day.

👏👏

Yes Katie, and a few years ago a young woman was gang raped in India and died as a consequence.

wyllow, of course I am aware of domestic violence in this country. It has happened since time immemorial. You cannot, however, compare it with the subjugation of women in many other countries, where men use women but expect to marry a virgin who is not allowed an education or to leave the home unaccompanied.

Cossy it really depends on whereabouts in Turkey you go/are.

We have a very close family member who has to spend one week in two/three just outside Istanbul for work. The attitudes of men towards women are mixed, but they are not appreciative of having a female boss

The tourist areas are different, but when the young men and women return to their homes (most of which are in the north) they revert to what their parents expect. I know this as our Turkish friend of 30 years married an American to escape Turkey, it took many many years for her family to accept.

GSM actually I agree that in some countries the subjugation of women is abhorrent. Has it not occurred to you that, perhaps, the young men who seek refuge here don’t want to be part of that. They want to grow up in an open, free, tolerant society, but are unable to go against their strict, repressive governments.

GrannyGravy13

Cossy it really depends on whereabouts in Turkey you go/are.

We have a very close family member who has to spend one week in two/three just outside Istanbul for work. The attitudes of men towards women are mixed, but they are not appreciative of having a female boss

The tourist areas are different, but when the young men and women return to their homes (most of which are in the north) they revert to what their parents expect. I know this as our Turkish friend of 30 years married an American to escape Turkey, it took many many years for her family to accept.

I wasn’t in tourist areas, I was staying with a resident, in a residential apartment complex which is a mix of Turkish, and Russians and a few Brits.

Our niece’s husband comes from Turkey.

30 years is a long time ago, things have moved on.

I very much doubt that Lizzie.

In all countries middle and upper class women are respected and do have status, lower class/caste women, single women in particular get no respect and are treated equal to the feral dogs that roam the streets.

GrannyGravy13

Cossy it really depends on whereabouts in Turkey you go/are.

We have a very close family member who has to spend one week in two/three just outside Istanbul for work. The attitudes of men towards women are mixed, but they are not appreciative of having a female boss

The tourist areas are different, but when the young men and women return to their homes (most of which are in the north) they revert to what their parents expect. I know this as our Turkish friend of 30 years married an American to escape Turkey, it took many many years for her family to accept.

I can absolutely see that some men, of any faith, wouldn’t appreciate a female, sadly that still happens here. Does your close female family member speak Turkish?

Many many years ago I had a very good Turkish female friend who came over from Istanbul to improve her English. She stayed and married an English man, who sadly treated her very badly in the end, they had two beautiful children and her nieces and female cousins all came to visit.

Perhaps things change very gradually and the more “traditional” families are gradually being phased out and replaced with more progressive families with different attitudes and aspirations.

Cossy I have known my Turkish friend for 30 years, have visited her mothers home frequently (Asian side of Istanbul)

I agree that some Turkish people are what could be said as westernised however, Turkey is a large country and many particularly the religious are not.

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes Katie, and a few years ago a young woman was gang raped in India and died as a consequence.

wyllow, of course I am aware of domestic violence in this country. It has happened since time immemorial. You cannot, however, compare it with the subjugation of women in many other countries, where men use women but expect to marry a virgin who is not allowed an education or to leave the home unaccompanied.

Our very own “travellers”, white and from all four parts of the UK still behave in that way in this very country.

I worked for a while with many of them, some living on the large, somewhat notorious site near Basildon, Essex.

It’s shocking how some women still appear to be considered the property of men in this day and age and in the Western world.

Many are also expected to remain virgins and be married off quite young and domestic violence incidents are very high.

Women still have battles to fight for equality across the world.

That’s true - but some of the countries from which asylum seekers emanate are infinitely worse.

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s true - but some of the countries from which asylum seekers emanate are infinitely worse.

So who can blame them for wanting to escape if they are liberals themselves? People are thankfully not all defined by the culture from which they come, they are people, like us, who make up their own minds.

GrannyGravy13

Cossy I have known my Turkish friend for 30 years, have visited her mothers home frequently (Asian side of Istanbul)

I agree that some Turkish people are what could be said as westernised however, Turkey is a large country and many particularly the religious are not.

That’s fair enough and I completely accept that, but it’s simply not the case with many Muslims now, especially the younger generation. I worked with many British Muslims of both genders, many are very progressive.

In America, particularly in the Deep South, many women’s rights are still being eroded, particularly in deeply religious Christian communities. You’ve only got to look at their abortion law to see that.

It’s the “demonisation” of particular cohorts, especially those without white skin, which I object to.

Sadly it’s MEN, some men, who don’t consider women to be their equals and treat them as “possessions”. Men of all faiths, colours, creed and nationality across the world.

Germanshepherdsmum

That’s true - but some of the countries from which asylum seekers emanate are infinitely worse.

That’s also true, sad isn’t it!

Cossy

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes Katie, and a few years ago a young woman was gang raped in India and died as a consequence.

wyllow, of course I am aware of domestic violence in this country. It has happened since time immemorial. You cannot, however, compare it with the subjugation of women in many other countries, where men use women but expect to marry a virgin who is not allowed an education or to leave the home unaccompanied.

Our very own “travellers”, white and from all four parts of the UK still behave in that way in this very country.

I worked for a while with many of them, some living on the large, somewhat notorious site near Basildon, Essex.

It’s shocking how some women still appear to be considered the property of men in this day and age and in the Western world.

Many are also expected to remain virgins and be married off quite young and domestic violence incidents are very high.

Women still have battles to fight for equality across the world.

that made me laugh! I have literally just read a text from a friend who is from the traveller community. She is on hols in Spain without her husband as usual. She goes with a friend. She has 4 adult children, all married with kids and the women rule the roost! They are all very much their own women and are very successful.

Primrose53

“that made me laugh! I have literally just read a text from a friend who is from the traveller community. She is on hols in Spain without her husband as usual. She goes with a friend. She has 4 adult children, all married with kids and the women rule the roost! They are all very much their own women and are very successful.”

I’m very glad your friend, her friends and their relatives are all free to live their lives as they choose, but I can assure you in different traveller communities it’s not the case.

Just as in many parts of society, different groups of people if similar communities have different values and ethos.

Because your friend has never experienced this doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist in different traveller communities, I can assure you it does happen.

I didn’t say otherwise Cossy.

Ooh! I think we should have a National Stereotype Day! At least it would be better than having one every day.

We can, but only if we can also have a "Determinedly Woke Granny Who Won't Accept That Not Everyone Thinks Like Them Day" as well.

Determinedly Woke Granny Who Won't Accept That Not Everyone Thinks Like Them Day"

Yes, in favour of that - with one amendment. Remove the ‘woke’!

Just what I was going to write LizzieDrip. It's not "woke" to accept that not everybody thinks the same.

PS. The point I was really making is that stereotypes seem to be everywhere on GN, especially of Muslims and young people. There are nearly two billion Muslims in the world. "They" (and it's not uncommon not to even give them a name - they're just "they") live in dozens of different countries, speak different languages and have different cultures. However, according to some posters on GN, Muslims are all lumped together and are stereotyped.

LizzieDrip

GSM actually I agree that in some countries the subjugation of women is abhorrent. Has it not occurred to you that, perhaps, the young men who seek refuge here don’t want to be part of that. They want to grow up in an open, free, tolerant society, but are unable to go against their strict, repressive governments.

Very doubtful where young women/ girls are concerned.

growstuff

PS. The point I was really making is that stereotypes seem to be everywhere on GN, especially of Muslims and young people. There are nearly two billion Muslims in the world. "They" (and it's not uncommon not to even give them a name - they're just "they") live in dozens of different countries, speak different languages and have different cultures. However, according to some posters on GN, Muslims are all lumped together and are stereotyped.

Think you are being way oversensitive as you mention you have Muslim family, a SIL I think.