Labour to get back to an 18 week waiting list within the first term

Wwm2 please note
Population of England 2022 was 57.1million
In 2012 it stood at 53.5 million

I had a conversation with a NHS nurse who said that population numbers and density were overwhelming the NHS.

GrannyGravy13

Whoever gets the keys to No.10 on 5th July hasn’t a cat in hells chance of reducing NHS wait times whilst the Junior doctors continue with their strike action.

On the breakfast news they are now asking for a restorative increase of over 35%. They have been offered 10% but have walked away from discussions.

This is a problem which, afaik, Labour hasn’t addressed in their so-called fully costed, fully funded ‘plan’. It’s clear that the doctors are not going to settle for much, if anything, less than 35% and so the strikes will continue until they get it. I have no idea what the total cost of such an increase would be, and if, as I assume, the NHS pays a percentage of earnings into a pension scheme then the cost is even higher. Without doctors stopping these strikes there isn’t a hope in hell of reducing waiting lists.

I linked to this report a few weeks ago but perhaps it is worth revisiting.

The NHS productivity puzzle
Why has hospital activity not increased in line with funding and staffing?

I hope the link takes you to its conclusions and recommendations, but if it doesn't they are on page 61.

The conclusion mentions a key factor which hasn't been touched on at all in this discussion, but which is important, IMO.

A lack of capital investment, notably preventing a boost in low diagnostic equipment stocks, is slowing the response to this problem.

Note that Labour is also talking of increasing investment in diagnostic equipment. This should also have a significant effect on waiting times.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/2023-06/nhs-productivity-puzzle_0.pdf

I think the doctors will settle for less than 35%, but there isn’t a hope in h…ll of them settling for 10%.

Their pay genuinely has declined by 35% over the last fifteen years. Government of whatever colour need to remember that doctors are highly trained and difficult to replace. All these half baked schemes to replace doctors with barely trained others ie Associate Physicians, will not cut the mustard.
Would you want your surgery performed by someone who isn’t even licensed to prescribe medication? I realise it won’t come to that, but if we want doctors, we jolly well have to pay for them.

Quite honestly you don’t want a human doing your surgery . It’s so last century. Robotic surgery is the way forward. Bring on the engineers….

There was a plan to allow APs to perform gall bladder removal which is considered major surgery, but straightforward if all goes well.

I had mine removed in the autumn by a fully qualified surgeon. I would not have been prepared to allow a AP to carry out the operation.

Good decision Whitewave.
Nor would I be prepared to allow a PA to perform surgery on me.
Good grief, what are these people (government) thinking of? It beggars belief!

Then they need to bring back the bursary for nurses and pay them more , why would anyone want to join a profession that doesn't value their worth ?

Just listening to someone from the Institute for Fiscal Studies saying that Labour don’t know what they might inherit but have boxed themselves in by ruling out tax increases and they will have to cut spending. I so look forward to seeing Starmer & co grilled by someone who knows which questions to ask and won’t give up without an honest answer,

And how about revenue from growth and investment in the U.K. It won’t of course be immediate, but Labour recognise that fact which is why they are talking about first steps, with the aspiration/plan to reform the NHS etc over time.

It won’t be immediate - exactly, and that’s the problem with all the alleged sources of the funding for their ‘plan’. They keep talking about change, but they cannot deliver what they talk about.

The IFS have said that both the Tories and Labour have reduced their capacity to do much, because both have ruled out raising the 3 major tax revenues.

That’s right - but it’s Labour who keep talking about change and make promises such as 40,000 extra hospital appointments a week, to name but one, which they are not going to be able to deliver.

So what happened to

40 new hospitals

Cutting the waiting lists?

50000 new nurses?

Improved care for people with multiple health conditions

Funding to allow people with autism and learning disabilities to move out of care.

No further privatised services

The additional £20.5bn funding.

I could go on.

The began their term in 2010 with stringent cuts and have continued along the same way ever since whilst strenuously denying it.

We are not stupid.

So can you trust the Tories to care for the NHS?

Of course not!

You seem to conveniently forget the cost of covid, the effect of the war in Ukraine- supporting people with fuel bills and the cost of living - and the cost of supporting Ukraine’s military.

Now if none of the above had happened … but they did. So easy to pretend that they didn’t, and that they were totally unexpected.

I’m not stupid either. I know the fragile fiscal basis on which Starmer’s ‘plan’ is predicated, but you choose not to acknowledge the fragility. It’s estimated that 26% of pupils will be removed from independent schools if VAT is imposed on fees, and some schools will be unable to survive that and the imposition of business rates - so that won’t pull in the money they expected. I don’t know where they will find the people to beef up border force and HMRC, but they will have to be paid; border force officials consider it won’t stop the boats, and I hope you (as a former HMRC employee) understand how long it takes to identify and investigate possible tax evasion, let alone to retrieve any money. So what exactly is going to pay for the ‘plan’ (especially with doctors still holding out for a 35% pay rise)? Promises, promises … undeliverable.

This country has been in chaos since 2016, when Johnson took over. Both pre-date Covid and Ukraine.

Truss destroyed the economy with her nutty budget - nothing to do with outside influences.

Covid and Ukraine haven’t helped, but most of this mess is just internal Tory foul ups.

My point is that NOTHING at all has been achieved. It is pathetic.

But due to circumstances, nothing can be achieved in the near future either, whoever is in charge.

maddyone

But due to circumstances, nothing can be achieved in the near future either, whoever is in charge.

You can guarantee that nothing will happen if the Tories get back in.

What you will be able to guarantee is that the NHS will be gone.

Rubbish. Typical Labour comment.

you will be able to guarantee is that the NHS wil be gone

I certainly don’t agree with that ridiculous comment.

Your remarks are made from hope rather than expectation.

Look at the way they have managed decline over the past 14 years.

maddyone

But due to circumstances, nothing can be achieved in the near future either, whoever is in charge.

No quick fixes, but I don't believe anything will change unless we get a Labour government.

A Labour government will change nothing.