Labour to get back to an 18 week waiting list within the first term

GSM. One definite change is middle class exodus of pupils into the State school system. Not fully costed. Presumably need to build more schools?

ronib

*GSM*. One definite change is middle class exodus of pupils into the State school system. Not fully costed. Presumably need to build more schools?

What has that got to do with reducing NHS waiting lists?

MaizieD. Building is a hazardous occupation - more pressure on the NHS?

ronib

*GSM*. One definite change is middle class exodus of pupils into the State school system. Not fully costed. Presumably need to build more schools?

How true. It will happen quickly it seems. Classrooms will be even more overcrowded.

Let’s not forget the increase in stress and anxiety for teachers in the interim period.

Honestly - how anyone can defend the wrecking of our public services, including the nhs after 14 years of Conservative mis-government it beyond me.
The govt has treated public servants with contempt, as seen in its response to the doctors request for pay to be brought in line with inflation.
With Labour we can anticipate efforts to improve rather than destroy
The cost to society of wrecking the NHS, substance misuse and mh health services, the Police, our criminal/civil justice system is immense. The most vulnerable children in the ciuntry waitung 12 months for care proceedings to conclude - I’ll stop there before I get really cross

I feel sorry for the children who will have to be uprooted too. There will probably be some nasty comments and bullying.

ronib

How does the Reeves plan for growth differ from the Liz Truss plan for growth? Grow the economy I seem to remember was the catchphrase and look where we ended up?

I think it was the plan to abolish the higher tax rate that caused the problems wasn’t it?

GSM very true unfortunately. Also adding to the waiting list for children’s mental health….

maddyone

The hospitals have working evenings and weekends for donkeys years. We still have insufficient doctors and other staff, and we have ongoing junior doctor strikes which in my opinion are fully justified, and if you don’t actually know any doctors, you are unlikely to understand why we have arrived at this point. Doctors are fleeing the country at an alarming rate. It takes a minimum of five years to train a doctor just to F1 level, and many, many more years before they are fully qualified as consultants. The NHS have been using the private sector to get patients through the system since the Blair years.
So where are the extra doctors going to come from?
How can the NHS use the facilities it already has at weekends and evenings when it already does that?
How can the NHS use the private facilities when it already does that?
Can we pay the junior doctors a reasonable raise which they well deserve because their pay has fallen radically behind in the last fifteen years?

In the end, paying the junior doctors much more is the only way to end this exodus.I hope they will accept 25% as can’t imagine any government would go to 35%.
Making doctors and nurses feel valued with pay is the way to both retaining them and recruiting them.

Oreo my local hospital has excellent staff taken from the four corners of the earth. It’s a real lesson in geography.
As for the politically motivated leaders of the junior doctors- well that’s another lesson altogether!

I know that this hornets nest over pay has been well poked by very left wing leaders of the junior doctors, but they wouldn’t have been able to carry all the junior doctors along with them if the majority hadn’t felt aggrieved. We do need to pay more to retain them.

Oreo common sense suggests that but have you asked any hospital doctors from abroad why they don’t mind/even like working in the Uk? I have…. Seems conditions here are much better than in Romania was one comment.

Oreo

maddyone

The hospitals have working evenings and weekends for donkeys years. We still have insufficient doctors and other staff, and we have ongoing junior doctor strikes which in my opinion are fully justified, and if you don’t actually know any doctors, you are unlikely to understand why we have arrived at this point. Doctors are fleeing the country at an alarming rate. It takes a minimum of five years to train a doctor just to F1 level, and many, many more years before they are fully qualified as consultants. The NHS have been using the private sector to get patients through the system since the Blair years.
So where are the extra doctors going to come from?
How can the NHS use the facilities it already has at weekends and evenings when it already does that?
How can the NHS use the private facilities when it already does that?
Can we pay the junior doctors a reasonable raise which they well deserve because their pay has fallen radically behind in the last fifteen years?

In the end, paying the junior doctors much more is the only way to end this exodus.I hope they will accept 25% as can’t imagine any government would go to 35%.
Making doctors and nurses feel valued with pay is the way to both retaining them and recruiting them.

I don't often agree with you, Oreo, but I do here.

Public sector employees have been treated badly by the last 14 years of tory government (as have all workers, really, with the frozen personal allowances). Undervaluing skilled professionals for the sake of their 'austerity' measures and 'small state' ideology was not a sensible move. We are paying the price for it now.

Ronib have you ever had a mortgage? That is Keynesism. Borrowing money now to be spent (and paid back) for your immediate and ongoing advantage.

Monica yes for a short while we had a mortgage. I guess we were over cautious with our borrowing and couldn’t see much benefit in jumping up the housing ladder. It meant keeping within our means. But I keep getting told to spend my money and that isn’t in my nature….

Good luck with that! Where are they going to find the extra doctors and nurses needed?

Never mind the money, where are they going to find the staff,buildings,beds, after care service as many are now discharged needing help at home. Blue Moon for me!

Fantastic - but have they said how?

It’s all fully costed apparently. I really hope it is, because too many people are waiting for treatment. I would absolutely love for this policy to be successful. I can’t see how the logistics will work though, since medics are already working weekends and evenings and private facilities are already being utilised. Nonetheless I hope it will be successful.

Is this yet another thing that’s supposed to be paid for by the evaded taxes? They are going to employ more HMRC staff (cost? Training?) who will take a very long time to identify tax evaders, investigate them and mount a case against them. Pie in the sky. And are they going to pay the doctors the 35% they’re demanding? They haven’t said anything - what’s the cost of that and where would the money come from? Borrowing?

And to prove how much they care about the waiting lists, I believe the doctors are planning a strike just before Election day?

If it was that easy a task then surely even the present govt would have done it in the last 14 yrs???
I don't believe any of the rhetoric before an election, seeing is believing.

Pantglas2

And pigs might fly! Check out Wales stats under Labour over the last 25 years and see how 18 MONTHS would’ve been optimistic in most instances!

I agree, promises are cheap, the reality may be much more expensive and thus very unlikely to be even attempted, let alone achieved.
And I also agree with ronib, few politicians of either party seem to have much of a grasp on economic reality, though some have supposedly got some understanding of unrealistic economic theories. Even those who can see the real picture are unlikely to be allowed to tell the truth before the election.

Would you like to tell us all about this 'economic reality, cc?