Sunak V Starmer

The share of pupils across the UK in private schools has remained around 6–7% for at least the last 20 years (or about 560,000–570,000 pupils in England). This has occurred despite a 20% real-terms increase in average private school fees since 2010 and a 55% rise since 2003

From a 2023 report by the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

You cannot force anyone to teach, Nurse, or join any of the public service jobs, unless there is a vocation to do so
Freya5

My experience in teacher training shows that many people are keen to enter the teaching profession. We had no shortage of applicants for teacher training courses, of various routes, with many being over-subscribed.

[Being pedantic here but I prefer to call it a profession, not a ‘vocation’.]

MaizieD have you heard of the ancient universities? Public schools provided candidates to study there. The State was uninvolved although I guess the Church helped.
There was therefore a benefit to society as a whole. We are going back a very long time.
In more recent times, private schools are saving the State money by educating students who would otherwise cost £6k annually in primary and £8k in secondary.

Sarnia Have you got your figures right? VAT of £1800 per month? That represents a gross monthly payment of £10,800 per month. That is to say £ 129,600 pa. They must be going to Eton or Harrow.

Freya5

LizzieDrip

I think we all know this will not be the demise of the independent school. Yes, a small number may ‘go under’ for a variety of reasons, and those children will be welcomed into state schools.

Independent school fees have risen well above inflation for the past 10 years, without any intervention from a Labour government. Has there been an exodus of children leaving private education and ‘overwhelming’ the state sector. Not that I’ve noticed - and I’ve only recently retired from the state sector.

They may be welcome, into an overcrowded, underfunded state sector. Oh I forgot Starmer is going to recruit an extra 6,500 teachers, from where I would like to know. You cannot force anyone to teach, Nurse, or join any of the public service jobs, unless their is a vocation to do so. You need that to work in the NHS or teaching profeesions. Or will he bribe them with pay offers and get people in just for the money, that may work for a while, but can't see staff staying for 30 40 years as my generation did, if they have no feel for the work.

I’d imagine a lot of the teachers recruited will be returners. 40,000 left teaching just in the academic year 2021/22. There will definitely be new hope for teachers under a Labour government, I have quite a few in my family, and they can’t wait for change. Hundreds of thousands have also left the NHS in the last few years.

LizzieDrip

^You cannot force anyone to teach, Nurse, or join any of the public service jobs, unless there is a vocation to do so^
Freya5

My experience in teacher training shows that many people are keen to enter the teaching profession. We had no shortage of applicants for teacher training courses, of various routes, with many being over-subscribed.

[Being pedantic here but I prefer to call it a profession, not a ‘vocation’.]

There is a very high drop out because the discipline is too poor and stress levels are too high, some schools are no better than a zoo
You are faced with a class of 30 where a significant number are disruptive, don’t want to learn and there is nothing you can do about it.

some schools are no better than a zoo
Katie590

What a horrible comment!

I imagine there’s a lot of truth in it.

Katie590 & GSM I presume your both talking from experience?

you’re not your

My son went to a comprehensive school. The only one in the catchment area. There were some very disruptive pupils, one of whom was subsequently jailed for a drug-related murder. He had a decent group of friends but things went downhill when the good headmaster left and a new ‘young and progressive’ one came along and some of the best teachers left. Thankfully my son was sufficiently advanced in his school career not to have been affected - but those in lower years were and the school really deteriorated. So yes, some classes became little better than a zoo. I’m grateful that my son left before that, or he would never have achieved what he has.

LizzieDrip

Katie590 & GSM I presume your both talking from experience?

Perhaps you can explain why there is a very high drop out as soon as new teachers get into the classroom

I think anyone with kids or grandkids in many comps would agree that they are little better than a zoo. The Covid shutdowns seem to have made it worse.🤷‍♀️

Katie590

LizzieDrip

Katie590 & GSM I presume your both talking from experience?

Perhaps you can explain why there is a very high drop out as soon as new teachers get into the classroom

The reasons are many this from a report.
^The reasons for leaving teaching were complex and multifaceted. Teachers tended to cite multiple contributing factors17, although generally there was a key reason which was
more prominent than others. Key reasons included workload (including volume of marking and planning), stress and ill health, and school leadership, policy and approaches. Government policy and curriculum and assessment changes also played in a role in some teachers’ decision to leave^
Workload is one of the major issues, The planning, marking and paperwork take over your life
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5aa15d24e5274a53c0b29341/Factors_affecting_teacher_retention_-_qualitative_investigation.pdf

I agree with Glorianny’s points. I’m out for the evening now but I’ll give you the reasons from my perspective later (or tomorrow - depending how many glasses of wine I have)

I didnt think it was that bad but 40-60% of new trainees have left the classroom within 5 yrs, older teachers retiring early add to that.

Katie590

I didnt think it was that bad but 40-60% of new trainees have left the classroom within 5 yrs, older teachers retiring early add to that.

Basically you can have very little private or personal life as a teacher. You need to get in early, work late and spend weekends catching up on the stuff you didn't manage to do during the week. The ridiculous thing is this doesn't really impact on the quality of your teaching. It's box ticking and paper shuffling.

Siope

I was. I thought it was dreadful. The format doesn’t work, there isn’t enough time to develop sensible and detailed answers, the moderation was weak, and the whole thing just felt like it wouldn’t help anyone undecided.

Absolutely agree. It was dreadful.

Germanshepherdsmum

I imagine there’s a lot of truth in it.

There is! Teenagers asking to go to the toilet every 5 minutes just so they can go out and vape. Teaching being disrupted continually one way or another. The stress for teachers is enormous.

My adult children are teachers.

Bump

I note that Sunak has been reprimanded over the false £2k tax claim by the ORS.

But the idiot Tories seem to be doubling down on the lie.

The more they do, the more they enforce the fact that Tories lie and have not changed since Johnson.

The £2000 that has been disputed has now been interpreted as £500 a year, or £10 a week across the 18m households in the UK.
If any government is going to improve services it’s going to need a lot more than that, because it’s only 2.5% of public spending which just keeps up with inflation

Gloryannie and LizzieDrip speak from long experience and address the issues of why it’s so hard to retain teachers. One of my daughters taught primary for 8 years before leaving because it was impossible to balance family life with the king hours, weekend working every teacher faces.
It’s also a imo significant that we’ve had austerity and a government with no respect or regard for public service

The OSR is clear
‘Our remit focuses on official statistics produced on official statistics by Government. It is not therefore for us to say whether the number itself is accurate or not.’
So the number wasn’t produced by Government but the OSR does not know the accurate figures? More confusing by the minute.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/opposition-policy-costings-2024

Here is the Treasury costings as published the big single item is the Warm Homes plan plus lots of other smaller increases in spending, and the extra taxation they expect to get from non doms and private schools.

It just cannot be done on £500 a year unless a lot more is borrowed.