Sunak V Starmer

Sir Kier Starmer and his aim to charge VAT on private schools is not properly thought out. He should make an exception where a private school is delivering a specialist education. Children who attend these schools are there because mainstream education cannot deliver an education for them. Some will be able to afford the fees. Others need help from their families to pay them but many will be funded by the local authority. If 20% VAT is added then some families will be unable to meet those increased fees. That will leave them with a decision to remove their child from a specialist education back to mainstream that couldn't deliver in the first place. Also many will apply to their local authority for funding, meaning that ultimately, the tax payer picks up the bill. This proposal clearly hasn't been thought through and if it is put in place after the GE it will be a shameful way to treat children who are entitled to a specialised SEND education.

I'm happy with using private care as a stop gap while investing in restoring the NHS to health. I don't want it to become a substitute.

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

Are the pupils self-funded or are local authorities paying the fees, as happens with many SEN places in private schools?

I've no problem in using private hospital's spare capacity provided a) the cost is similar to the NHS cost (that's generally how the contract is agreed) and b) the standard of care is the same. With regard to b) I'm not sure it is as good as in most private hospitals the medical cover at night is pretty basic and there is rarely any access to good emergency treatment should a patient have an unexpected adverse outcome eg a stroke after an operation or a haemorrhage. Also there's often less flexibility with regard to when the patient is discharged.

Specialist education makes an enormous difference Richard Branson who is dyslectic is a prime example, parents could afford the cost and we know the result. His headmaster thought he might end up in prison as a lot of those with learning difficulties do, there should be much more specialist education.

My husband has a GS with dyslexia, he did go to a specializing private school, at 21 he’s a computer wizz.

MaizieD

I'm happy with using private care as a stop gap while investing in restoring the NHS to health. I don't want it to become a substitute.

MaizieD I guess you have the approval of the Godfather in your own family to use private healthcare? Or perhaps he’s not standing for public office?

I don’t know growstuff, but Starmer’s plans mean the school can’t afford to remain open. There are certainly fee-paying non-SEN pupils.

At the independent school I worked at in London, I'm sure several children had SEN provision paid for by the local authority. The school came to an agreement with the authority to only accept a small amount of the funding, and paid for the SEN staff itself to help out with the budget.

Katie590

Specialist education makes an enormous difference Richard Branson who is dyslectic is a prime example, parents could afford the cost and we know the result. His headmaster thought he might end up in prison as a lot of those with learning difficulties do, there should be much more specialist education.

My husband has a GS with dyslexia, he did go to a specializing private school, at 21 he’s a computer wizz.

I suspect that most of us know that but the majority cannot afford to pay for specialist education. Furthermore from what I've heard from friends and acquaintances there is a shortage of specialist teachers.

PS. I'm not sure independent schools will be able to help out with SEN pupils in the same way after the VAT increase.
Sir Kier Starmer and his aim to charge VAT on private schools is not properly thought out.
I agree, and there's an awful lot of unravelling to be done with what constitutes education, and what constitutes childcare which cannot have VAT added.

Joseann

PS. I'm not sure independent schools will be able to help out with SEN pupils in the same way after the VAT increase.
Sir Kier Starmer and his aim to charge VAT on private schools is not properly thought out.
I agree, and there's an awful lot of unravelling to be done with what constitutes education, and what constitutes childcare which cannot have VAT added.

That’s why I suspect that SEN children will continue s they are

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t know growstuff, but Starmer’s plans mean the school can’t afford to remain open. There are certainly fee-paying non-SEN pupils.

Schools don’t close purely on the basis of plans of a government before it’s elected, or before timelines for changes are given - this school must be in a deep financial mire already.

The school is viable now Casdon, but has announced that it will have to close if VAT is charged on fees and full business rates are charged. Reeves has made it clear that these proposals would be implemented immediately.

ronib

MaizieD

I'm happy with using private care as a stop gap while investing in restoring the NHS to health. I don't want it to become a substitute.

MaizieD I guess you have the approval of the Godfather in your own family to use private healthcare? Or perhaps he’s not standing for public office?

I don't have the slightest idea what this ridiculous post of yours is about.

Germanshepherdsmum

The school is viable now Casdon, but has announced that it will have to close if VAT is charged on fees and full business rates are charged. Reeves has made it clear that these proposals would be implemented immediately.

So it isn’t actually closing - it is just putting out alarm signals??

As someone suggested child care and education come under a different vat law.

This I think is your answer.

Here’s a story about the school Casdon. Sorry it’s from the DM - the Telegraph article is behind a paywall. It also emphasises that the fee-paying parents are ordinary people, not rich.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13486745/Private-school-one-pupils-special-needs-blames-Labours-VAT-policy-forcing-closure-headteacher-says-parents-unable-afford-fee-hike.html

Subtle change of language between ‘is having to close’ and ‘will have to close’, which means it is not closing until a formal announcement is made then? In reality the reason it is most likely already struggling, which it must be to make a pre-emptive statement, is a fall in pupil numbers which is already happening before Labour come into power. SEN pupils in private schools are often subsidised by LAs, who can no longer afford to pay for high cost placements. I know from talking to Social Services colleagues before I retired that this was already an issue then, and it can only have become more acute as budgets reduce.

I thought there was a 2 year period before implementation.

Thank you, Germanshepherdsmum, that's exactly the type of small school I mentioned on another thread, where fees are around £10k, (the price of a holiday), and within the reach of a fair amount of parents. These are the schools which are likely to fold.

It won’t affect the very well off people, just another hit at those less well off, working hard to give their children what they hope is a better start and they don’t count.
Where will the children from these schools go?
Have they put plans into place to use the finance raised by these measures specifically to improve schools and build new ones where necessary to accommodate the extra children.

Wyllow3

I thought there was a 2 year period before implementation.

Yes. It is muted that the date is likely to be April 2026.

Personally I have no idealogical objection to private schools, if parents want to pay for different schooling it’s up to them, but if a child is SEN proper schooling should be available to all, currently the provision is woefully inadequate.

One of the comments below the article;

took the opportunity to check out this particular school following the article in the Telegraph and it wasn’t mentioned that it’s been in financial trouble since 2018 following a poor rating by Ofstead. The Pupil numbers have halved despite improvements and she was at loggerheads with the department of education for years.

She also announced the closure of the preschool in February due to funding and rising costs. There’s several articles on this in the local press and suggest readers google it.

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

Perhaps it will do what a failing private school I know did. Closed as a private school and opened as an Academy trust, incorporating a Local authority primary school into it, so it now serves 5-18.
Its results have rocketed and from a rather inadequate private school it has become a high achieving academy.

I thought you believed in private enterprise GSM? If a business isn't viable should the government have to prop it up? is there a difference between providing tax breaks which do this and subsidising other things?