Sunak V Starmer

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

Why? It hasn't happened yet

Casdon

Subtle change of language between ‘is having to close’ and ‘will have to close’, which means it is not closing until a formal announcement is made then? In reality the reason it is most likely already struggling, which it must be to make a pre-emptive statement, is a fall in pupil numbers which is already happening before Labour come into power. SEN pupils in private schools are often subsidised by LAs, who can no longer afford to pay for high cost placements. I know from talking to Social Services colleagues before I retired that this was already an issue then, and it can only have become more acute as budgets reduce.

You have absolutely no evidence that the school is already struggling. Given what is clear about the type of people who send their children there, and the high proportion of SEN children there, at least some of whom may be LA funded, an increase of 20% in fees is unaffordable - and as I have already said, the school would have to pay full business rates. These are the people Starmer is targeting - not wealthy, just ordinary people trying to do their best for their children and doubtless making sacrifices in order to do so. It’s a disgraceful policy, based on the politics of envy - the idea that anyone whose child attends an independent school is rich. I would dearly love to see Starmer grilled on this.

People are already withdrawing children from independent schools HPQ, based on what has been said about this very specific policy and the likelihood of a Labour government.

Have they put plans into place to use the finance raised by these measures specifically to improve schools

Yes!

People are already withdrawing children from independent schools

And GSM, are they managing to find state school places for their children?

The school in Downham Market will
a) already know how many parents have given notice to leave
b) know if there has been a drop in parents signing up for the coming years
c) have noticed a drop in visits from prospective parents
The school makes the decision accordingly.

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

I've just looked at the figures for this school. It is running hugely under capacity- 106 pupils with space for 150 and only 6.6% of the pupils have an SEN health and care plan and 15% have special needs help. That isn't a large proportion.
If the head could fill her school there wouldn't be financial problems

It did badly in its last inspection, apparently.

I can't imagine parents being keen to pay for their children to go there.

Almost a third of the pupils have special needs Glorianny. The government isn’t propping up independent schools. They have charitable status which Labour seeks to remove - at the expense of the children. Pure ideology.

I once taught in an inner city school where out of a class of 27 15 of the children had special needs. That is they already had what was then a Statement of Special Needs or they were on the way to getting one. That's over 50%. That's a large proportion.

MissAdventure

It did badly in its last inspection, apparently.

I can't imagine parents being keen to pay for their children to go there.

Are you sure? It has a "Good" rating at the latest inspection from what I see?

^I've just looked at the figures for this school. It is running hugely under capacity- 106 pupils with space for 150 and only 6.6% of the pupils have an SEN health and care plan and 15% have special needs help. That isn't a large proportion.
If the head could fill her school there wouldn't be financial problems^

That’s interesting isn’t it Glorianny. People should remember that private schools are businesses and, if not run effectively, will go out of business - like any other business. Perhaps the trashing of the economy by the Conservative government has also contributed to the falling numbers at this school because their parents could no longer afford the fees.

I’m sure all the children will be warmly welcomed at local state schools

Germanshepherdsmum

Almost a third of the pupils have special needs Glorianny. The government isn’t propping up independent schools. They have charitable status which Labour seeks to remove - at the expense of the children. Pure ideology.

Even if you add up the figures GSM 6.6% +15% =21.6%. That's less than a quarter nowhere near a third. Here's the figures
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/121251/downham-preparatory-school-and-montessori-nursery/absence-and-pupil-population

Maybe that's why the school is doing badly. Can't manage simple figures!!!

You never answered my question. A private school is a business enterprise should the government be propping up failing business by giving them tax breaks even if they are described as "charitable status"?

Small independent schools have been struggling for numbers for years. Two have closed in my area. One of them closed about five years ago, so had absolutely nothing to do with the threat of a Labour government.

In my opinion, it was a huge mistake to close special schools without thinking through the consequences. A number of state schools now have attached special units, where pupils can integrate when appropriate, but also have specialist facilities, such as therapy rooms. I think they should be encouraged because provision is currently very patchy.

I wouldn't have got out if bed to run such a school for £100k and that was in 1990s. Certainly not viable these days.

Scrap Sunak and the other idiot and let Nigel Farage be Prime Minister, we need a straight talking person who has always stood up for Great Britain. I watched him on I'm a celebrity and he spoke a lot of sense and I for one am voting for him.

A number of state schools now have attached special units, where pupils can integrate when appropriate, but also have specialist facilities, such as therapy rooms. I think they should be encouraged because provision is currently very patchy

Yes Growstuff, I’m sure the extra money allocated to state schools for extra staff & resources will enable this to happen.

Likewise MaizieD
You may be aware that Starmer has made some very dubious statements about private health and using it to keep his own parents alive.
Basically he would prefer his relatives to die rather than use private healthcare! Strange guy.

Do you live in the Clacton constituency, Dingleberry?

I watched him on I'm a celebrity and he spoke a lot of sense and I for one am voting for him.

Brilliant Dingleberry - you go for it

ronib

Likewise MaizieD
You may be aware that Starmer has made some very dubious statements about private health and using it to keep his own parents alive.
Basically he would prefer his relatives to die rather than use private healthcare! Strange guy.

You are beginning to sound like Trump.

Starmer made no such claims.

You're right Joseann.
I stand corrected, it was the previous inspection, and they made improvements since then.

This school had capacity for 150 pupils, but only had 56 on roll in 2023 when it was inspected. I suspect not being able to fill the places is the reason it's closing.

Wwm2 what did Starmer say then?

He was asked this question in the first tv debate. Sunak will pay for private healthcare to save a relative’s life and Starmer won’t.
Outrageous.