What is it that attracts racists, Islamaphobes, homophobes and general bigots to Nigel Farage?

Oreo

Dismissing voters views often leads to bad outcomes.France could now end up with Le Pen in control.

I’m not sure we are dismissing voters views, rather questioning them, worried about them and refuting them.

I’ve seen and heard more than enough about Reform’s “rallies”.

They sound and feel “Trumpish@, bordering on “cultish” and frankly I find it scary!

Sorry “Trumpish”

Isn’t Ke Pen about to take control because she’s duped people into thinking that it’s no longer like her father’s party but now much nicer?

Cossy

Oreo

Dismissing voters views often leads to bad outcomes.France could now end up with Le Pen in control.

I’m not sure we are dismissing voters views, rather questioning them, worried about them and refuting them.

I’ve seen and heard more than enough about Reform’s “rallies”.

They sound and feel “Trumpish@, bordering on “cultish” and frankly I find it scary!

Nobody can ever match Corbyn as the most dangerous man in British politics.

And it’s very apt that Glasto is on this weekend when just a very few years ago, crowds of teenagers and champagne socialists were there chanting “ooh Jeremy Corbyn”. There he was in his Stalin cap lapping it all up and imagining himself in No 10.
He thought it was guaranteed just as many pollsters did.
Look how that turned out! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Again it's the impossibility of having any kind of conversation as Dickens alluded to. I dont support them cossy but because I am trying to have some sort of conversation you jump to the conclusion that I do. There is no point.

Primrose53

Cossy

Oreo

Dismissing voters views often leads to bad outcomes.France could now end up with Le Pen in control.

I’m not sure we are dismissing voters views, rather questioning them, worried about them and refuting them.

I’ve seen and heard more than enough about Reform’s “rallies”.

They sound and feel “Trumpish@, bordering on “cultish” and frankly I find it scary!

Nobody can ever match Corbyn as the most dangerous man in British politics.

And it’s very apt that Glasto is on this weekend when just a very few years ago, crowds of teenagers and champagne socialists were there chanting “ooh Jeremy Corbyn”. There he was in his Stalin cap lapping it all up and imagining himself in No 10.
He thought it was guaranteed just as many pollsters did.
Look how that turned out! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

But the point is - he didn’t

As I have stated we don’t on the whole do extremes in the U.K. which means that Farage and his extremism and cultish Trumpian following, will eventually get short shrift.

He was quite successful in mobilising the leave vote.

Dickens - many thanks for continuing to develop debate. We are in dangerous waters when things are so,polarised.
This is a very unedifying thread.
Calling other posters ‘catty schoolgirls’ gives a real flavour

Yes but somethings are either right or wrong surely? And a lot of this is so very wrong.

Primrose53

Cossy

Oreo

Dismissing voters views often leads to bad outcomes.France could now end up with Le Pen in control.

I’m not sure we are dismissing voters views, rather questioning them, worried about them and refuting them.

I’ve seen and heard more than enough about Reform’s “rallies”.

They sound and feel “Trumpish@, bordering on “cultish” and frankly I find it scary!

Nobody can ever match Corbyn as the most dangerous man in British politics.

And it’s very apt that Glasto is on this weekend when just a very few years ago, crowds of teenagers and champagne socialists were there chanting “ooh Jeremy Corbyn”. There he was in his Stalin cap lapping it all up and imagining himself in No 10.
He thought it was guaranteed just as many pollsters did.
Look how that turned out! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Corbyn and Farage are two sides of the same coin. That’s the irony, that it tends to be those who hate Corbyn who love Farage and vice versa. Most of us view the actions of both more dispassionately.

Out of interest, as it is the event of the weekend before the election, was there a Farage movement at Glastonbury too, I haven’t heard either way?

Galaxy

And that was a perfect example of what Dickens was talking about.

Yup Galaxy.

We have a poster on here, Urmstongran who declared a while back now, that she intended to vote for Reform (haven't seen her posting for a while, I hope all's OK at her end).

Anyway, her politics and mine are totally opposed, but I have spoken with her off-forum, and she is a kind and decent person, and there is no way she can be thought of as having nazi 'tendencies'.

I think she's wrong, but she sees things differently.

Reform is Right Wing - but both Left and Right attract extremists. When Momentum was created, with its plausible idealistic aims, it also attracted one or two undesirable militants who were more into anarchy than any other structure, and according to my grandson, racists as well.

However, Farage needs to get a grip and stop with the Trumpian deep-state conspiracies. He was the obvious replacement for Tice but he's not done the platform any favours since Tice's departure.

Galaxy

Again it's the impossibility of having any kind of conversation as Dickens alluded to. I dont support them cossy but because I am trying to have some sort of conversation you jump to the conclusion that I do. There is no point.

No, Galaxy, my comment wasn’t directed at any one individual, rather at those on here who have openly supported Reform UK, and whilst I utterly emphasise with people’s frustration about where we are now, and all the issues surrounding them, not just immigration, this is so much more than just immigration. I am genuinely both interested and alarmed at the rise of Reform, along with Farage, Tice, Widdecombe etc.

Rhetoric about "British Values " seems to suggest that these are not shared by others. Is this true? Are these not the values of people in Denmark? New Zealand? Holland?
Why is this seen by some as purely the prerogative of the Reform Party leadership?

Dickens but it’s more than one or two “extremists”, there are extremists amongst the candidates, those who support him actively and those who wish to vote for him.

Chocolatelovinggran

Rhetoric about "British Values " seems to suggest that these are not shared by others. Is this true? Are these not the values of people in Denmark? New Zealand? Holland?
Why is this seen by some as purely the prerogative of the Reform Party leadership?

I don’t think anyone can explain because it’s all a bit of “showmanship”. Some way of illustrating that British people (especially British born people, which rules out both my husband and myself) are somehow more superior to other nations, somehow better, on a higher moral plane.

It plays to people’s ego, ooh look at me, I’m so much better than some non Brit!

Galaxy

He was quite successful in mobilising the leave vote.

Indeed he was, he’s a great orator, he is charming and can sell whatsoever to anyone. If I didn’t doubt his (divisive) intentions and ambitions, I’d find him entertaining and amusing, in the same way as I found Johnson entertaining prior to him entering politics.

The main appeal of Farage/Reform is he gives simple answers to complex problems:
Housing shortage= too many immigrants whereas it's actually too little investment in affordable housing and all that entails eg planning, land costs, profits for building companies, shortage of skilled workers etc etc

Problems getting NHS treatment = too many immigrants whereas 20% of the NHS staff are immmigrants which is far less than the proportion using the service, too many people with co-morbities, an ageing population, a lack of investment etc etc

Dreadful social care= too many immigrants whereas poorly paid immigrants are caring for a great many people, lack of investment, profits made by privatisation of services

Lack of school places - too many immigrants whereas there's actually NOT an overall shortage of school places, we have schools that are underfunded because they have insufficient pupils!

Lack of economic growth= spending too much money on immigrants whereas we have a insufficient labour to increase our economy and are relying on immigrants to keep so many of services running.

I could go on, but basically if you look at Reform's "pledges" it is totally uncosted and I doubt you would find an economist who would validate it. However, it isn't about that is it? It's basically all about immigration, just as UKIP was all about immigration. The simple answer to complex problems, find scapegoats and blame them. This is exactly what Hitler did, he told the German population that all there ills were due to the Jews, got enough to accept that and then made sure anyone else who disagreed was "dealt with".

Chocolatelovinggran

Rhetoric about "British Values " seems to suggest that these are not shared by others. Is this true? Are these not the values of people in Denmark? New Zealand? Holland?
Why is this seen by some as purely the prerogative of the Reform Party leadership?

That's a very good question indeed.

foxie48

The main appeal of Farage/Reform is he gives simple answers to complex problems:
Housing shortage= too many immigrants whereas it's actually too little investment in affordable housing and all that entails eg planning, land costs, profits for building companies, shortage of skilled workers etc etc

Problems getting NHS treatment = too many immigrants whereas 20% of the NHS staff are immmigrants which is far less than the proportion using the service, too many people with co-morbities, an ageing population, a lack of investment etc etc

Dreadful social care= too many immigrants whereas poorly paid immigrants are caring for a great many people, lack of investment, profits made by privatisation of services

Lack of school places - too many immigrants whereas there's actually NOT an overall shortage of school places, we have schools that are underfunded because they have insufficient pupils!

Lack of economic growth= spending too much money on immigrants whereas we have a insufficient labour to increase our economy and are relying on immigrants to keep so many of services running.

I could go on, but basically if you look at Reform's "pledges" it is totally uncosted and I doubt you would find an economist who would validate it. However, it isn't about that is it? It's basically all about immigration, just as UKIP was all about immigration. The simple answer to complex problems, find scapegoats and blame them. This is exactly what Hitler did, he told the German population that all there ills were due to the Jews, got enough to accept that and then made sure anyone else who disagreed was "dealt with".

I completely agree.

I still don’t understand why, why are people supporting Reform when it’s clear to many of us that most of their policies are unworkable and that it all feels very much like Brexit mark 2.

Some have remarked on Farage's ability as a speaker.

He is articulate and 'commanding' in that respect.

But - only if he's not under personal pressure, and when he is put under pressure he does not perform so well.

And I think he knows it, too.

He's good in the attack position, but he can't play defence very well.

I think the party will lose some female support. Others might not take too kindly to his admiration of Putin and his blaming of the West for upsetting him.

People may indeed be friendly away from here and some may think neither of the 2 big parties are for them.But lets not beat about the bush, what motivates a person to go down the Farage/Reform route is race and colour.

Thanks for clarifying th

Oops. Thanks for clarifying that cossy about support for reform, I thought you meant me, so apologies.

Galaxy

Oops. Thanks for clarifying that cossy about support for reform, I thought you meant me, so apologies.

Absolutely no problem, Galaxy. sadly I think topics such as this do bring out the “passion” in many of us and I truly meant nothing personal towards yourself.

I keep telling myself to keep calm, wait until after July 4th and then totally ignoring my own advice 😂😂😂

Good post Foxie because it highlights what the speech as copied out in capital letters

misses out utterly and completely what we should be proud of (and want to put right)

- which is Care. As in the Welfare State, our health and social care, and so on.

I thin that's a core value.