What is it that attracts racists, Islamaphobes, homophobes and general bigots to Nigel Farage?

Doodledog

Mt61

Why do they need to get to Britain, after coming through all those countries- any particular reason? I woke up a long time ago, thanks very much

Maybe I'm still asleep, or just not 'woke enough', but I've never understood the 'first safe country' thing. It just feels like an abdication of responsibility to me.

If every refugee stayed in the first safe country they came upon, landlocked countries would take almost 100% of the immigrants and islands would get virtually none. Maybe we would get the odd one from Northern France, or Ireland, but what are the chances of that?

Apart from not wanting to do our share, is there any particular reason behind this way of thinking, please?

Maybe I'm still asleep, or just not 'woke enough', but I've never understood the 'first safe country' thing. It just feels like an abdication of responsibility to me.

It's totally impractical and illogical that the 'first safe country' should be the final destination of an immigrant. For the reasons you mention.

On a separate note, I think it should be noted that in terms of refugee population, Turkey has the largest share. Figures vary a tad, but in the region of three and a half million. Mostly from Syria of course.

It's also worth pointing out that there are numbers of asylum seekers who seek refuge close to home - in the hope that they may be able to return at some future date.

They do not all get on boats to come to our shores. Germany and France host more than we do.

We cannot turn the clock back - wars, persecution, poverty have caused people to be on the move. And our own hands are not entirely clean when it comes to interference in some of these nations' affairs.

I don't believe there are many people who would agree to completely unrestrained immigration, although I'm equally sure that Reform will attempt to say otherwise.

I just watched a video where a British man in Spain who went there 20 odd years ago for economic reasons (and the weather of course) was complaining about the number of economic migrants arriving on our shores.

Ah, but he did it legally! Yes, he did - because he had that option.

It is the most natural state for a human being who is impoverished to seek to improve his fortunes. Humans have been doing it for centuries.

How we deal with it now is another matter. It's a global issue and needs a global solution. Because it's going to get more intense with the ravages of war and climate.

It's interesting how many people who claim they know those who will emigrate if the new government raise additional rate taxes are so often the same people who object to 'economic migrants' coming here.

On a similar note, I once had a tricky evening at my husband's work Christmas party as I was seated next to someone who was planning to move to Spain (pre-Brexit) because the UK was 'going to the dogs with all the immigrants'. It was so difficult being unable to speak my mind.

Something occurred to me today. Prior to Brexit, if a refugee stayed in France but wanted to work in the UK they would have been able to do so because of free movement. Although I assume they would have had to apply for French citizenship?

Dickens but does the expat in Spain expect the Spanish people to house and feed him

Thank you dickens on the "perception" issue, and how Reform (and so many others in the past, like Enoch Powell) use fear to gain political advantage.

Biscuitmuncher

Dickens but does the expat in Spain expect the Spanish people to house and feed him

Certainly pre-Brexit Spain would have allowed him to work and pay his own rent and grocery bills.

Biscuitmuncher

Dickens but does the expat in Spain expect the Spanish people to house and feed him

No, but if he is still there, he will find migrant levels have increased at the same rate as the UK.

Biscuitmuncher

Dickens but does the expat in Spain expect the Spanish people to house and feed him

No, obviously not.

But he was talking about the actual number of immigrants who are domiciled in the UK, not just asylum seekers.

My point was though that people will always seek a better life, it's human nature. Whether it's an impoverished Brit wanting his pension to go further, or an economic migrant looking for a better way of life.

Dickens my dad left Wales for England but didn't expect to be kept at someone else's expense

Mt61

Why do they need to get to Britain, after coming through all those countries- any particular reason? I woke up a long time ago, thanks very much

Well those who stay in Italy, Germany, France etc, obviously don't need to get to Britain.

You do realise that they don't all come here?

I think you're missing the point that things are always different if you have money, Dickens . It helps if you also have connections, and dare I say it a white skin. Someone coming to the UK and refusing to learn the language, sticking with their own kind, eating the food of their homeland etc is considered to be insulting the host nation, but when it happens the other way round it's all ok.

The numptie at Mr Dog's work do didn't speak Spanish, but that was ok, as he was going to live where 'everyone speaks English'. He'd been there on holiday and it was great - 'they even had proper food'. He wasn't going there to work - he was cashing in his pension and retiring early for a better life, as the COL was lower and the weather better. No different from other economic migrants, or those who (like him) are fleeing meteorological circumstances (albeit that tsunamis and earthquakes are rather more serious than rainy summers).

Biscuitmuncher

Dickens my dad left Wales for England but didn't expect to be kept at someone else's expense

So he was allowed to use his skills to get a job in England?

There is no obligation in the Refugee Convention, either explicit or implicit, to claim asylum in the first safe country reached by a refugees. Ukraine and Moldova comes to mind. see Doodedog's post above.

Whether that person travelled through several countries before claiming asylum simply has no bearing on fear of persecution at home. It is all about the refugee’s relationship with their country of nationality, not other countries through which the refugee may have passed.

Some politicians in the UK wanted it to be the law that a refugee should be returnable to a safe third country if he or she manages to reach the UK. And, in fact, there is such a system operating within the EU. It’s called the Dublin System. UK was part of it. But the UK is no longer able to participate in that system following Brexit.

And whose fault would that be? Farage and the people who voted Leave perhaps?

Ironically, the man who was going to stand as a Reform candidate in this constituency lived in Turkey for fifteen years. He was forced to withdraw as a result of support for the BNP and derogatory comments about immigrants and is now standing as an independent.

Shame really because I'd hoped he might split the extreme right-wing vote here.

Biscuitmuncher

Dickens my dad left Wales for England but didn't expect to be kept at someone else's expense

I am attempting to explain why someone from Eritrea or Sudan for example who survives on less than £1 per day, where there is little work, where crops regularly fail, where drinking water is contaminated, where childbirth is fraught with danger to the woman, where... well you get the picture...

... might decide, given the opportunity, to say sod this for a game of soldiers and - if he can beg, borrow or steal the money, traverse the terrain and eventually hop on a boat to the UK having realised and been persuaded probably by his family that he will have no future otherwise and that he'll get a job ultimately here in Britain.

Look, I'm not recommending it, I'm not even condoning it, I'm just explaining why I don't think Amanuel or Mesfin sits on a plateau watching the sun go down and thinking, yeah, but this isn't fair on the taxpayers in the UK, though.

Desperate people do desperate things without carefully cogitating all the rights and wrongs and possibilities of such a journey... they just see an impoverished future stretching out endlessly before them, and a means to an end.

Not only that, but historically Sudan had links with the UK, which is why there's a small Sudanese community in the UK. Not only that, but there's a civil war in Sudan and lives really are in danger. Eritrea is at permanent war and all male Eritreans are conscripted until they're middle-aged. Many of them learn English at school and have family already in the UK.

PS. I think you're underestimating how wealthy and educated middle-class Sudanese are. I doubt many of them are so-called "economic" migrants, but their lives certainly are in danger. My daughter's father-in-law is from Sudan and still has family there. My son-in-law's cousin was attacked last year and suffered life-changing injuries.

Doodledog yes, because he wasn't here illegally, he was with his family and was needed

Biscuitmuncher

Doodledog yes, because he wasn't here illegally, he was with his family and was needed

But asylum seekers aren't here illegally!! In any case, he still used up accommodation, health services, etc, whatever his legal status. This is a bit of a silly argument.

I see Ofcom have said the Channel 4 documentary showing the racism, homophobia etc etc inside Reform was not a set-up

www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-and-on-demand/broadcast-standards/update-complaints-channel-4-news-undercover-reform/

Siope remarkable isn’t it?

His followers won’t believe that though, will they. It’s like a cult imo.

MayBee70

His followers won’t believe that though, will they. It’s like a cult imo.

Of course not. Ofcom is a tool of the elite establishment. It was bound to find in their favour.

Of course it wasn’t a ch4 set up, good to see this investigation concluded quickly. Farage and co present themselves as victims. One of their candidates has today been exposed as claiming the Jews run the banks. It’s nit difficult to see why Some People are attracted to Reform

Iam64

Of course it wasn’t a ch4 set up, good to see this investigation concluded quickly. Farage and co present themselves as victims. One of their candidates has today been exposed as claiming the Jews run the banks. It’s nit difficult to see why Some People are attracted to Reform

Is this the loonytune who compared the Covid vaccine to the Holocaust? What is it about conspiracy theorists? Maybe some psychoanalyst could explain how they get like that.