Did anyone else spot this about Reform?

It’s obvious that the majority of people didn’t want Reform to be the majority party in Parliament, otherwise they’d have voted for them.
I still maintain that 14% is quite a significant number though. Especially given that the voter turnout was quite low. Perhaps that tells us about the level of general apathy in the population. Not everyone is like our Gransnetters on here, interested and engaged.

maddyone👍

growstuff

No, I wasn't surprised. The percentage was consistent with what UKIP was polling and is consistent with attitudinal surveys, which show that just under 20% of the population is racist.

Are you going to keep with the insults to Reform voters? Just because people want to control immigration does not make them racist.

These constant accusations have held back proper debate on the subject for decades, which is why we are in the current crisis.

It’s obvious that the majority of people didn’t want Reform to be the majority party in Parliament, otherwise they’d have voted for them.

You really think it could be possible for any minority party to take the majority of votes, especially one which has only been in existence for 5 years! 🤦‍♀️😂

No Chestnut I don’t, and I was actually saying that a significant number of people did vote for them.
However, I think we are stuck in the position of having two major parties in the UK that will always have the ability to win power, until and unless we have proportional representation, which seems unlikely any time soon.

Chestnut, I agree it does not make folk racist for wanting to control illegal immigration. I find it truly worrying.one lady on a Greek island said the migrants coming onto her island are stealing fruit from her garden.

BBC investigation revealed the candidate wasn’t fake, just vain.
www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckvgl9kzwzjo
It’s worth reading this article, because it reveals the good, the bad and the ugly about the election campaign.

MaizieD thanks for the link and the chart. Very interesting!

Chestnut

growstuff

No, I wasn't surprised. The percentage was consistent with what UKIP was polling and is consistent with attitudinal surveys, which show that just under 20% of the population is racist.

Are you going to keep with the insults to Reform voters? Just because people want to control immigration does not make them racist.

These constant accusations have held back proper debate on the subject for decades, which is why we are in the current crisis.

I didn't claim that at all.

Why do you think being racist is an insult anyway? If that's how people are, they have a perfect right to be so.

Growstuff, I have never met anyone at all who is racist!

Most folks are tolerant and kindly.

Casdon

BBC investigation revealed the candidate wasn’t fake, just vain.
www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckvgl9kzwzjo
It’s worth reading this article, because it reveals the good, the bad and the ugly about the election campaign.

He wanted to look good on his poster, so what, it still looks like him. Honestly, so pathetic. Perhaps Rayner and her colleague should have looked in the mirror before they set out for Dowing St.

What’s pathetic Freya5? I was stating the fact, as there is no reason to digitally enhance your picture to make you look younger and slimmer with more hair except because you’re vain is there? Celebrities do it all the time, for exactly that reason.

maddyone

No Chestnut I don’t, and I was actually saying that a significant number of people did vote for them.
However, I think we are stuck in the position of having two major parties in the UK that will always have the ability to win power, until and unless we have proportional representation, which seems unlikely any time soon.

Apologies if I misread that. It looked like another go at Reform which I'm getting heartily sick of even though I didn't vote for them. I'd probably be defending the Lib Dems if they were the ones being attacked!

maddyone
I suppose we don't know why 14% of those who voted chose to support Reform. Maybe they were voters who, like the Brexit vote, wanted to give the incumbent party a bashing?

I confess I wanted to give the Tory party under Cameron a bashing too and know that some of the post-Brexit analysis showed that this was a substantial part of the Brexit vote.

Maybe that's what we are seeing here?

MaizieD's chart does show though how "Reform voters" as a group tend to feel about different issues and they are broadly to the right of the Conservative voters - so perhaps anger about the government is too simplistic.

No problem Chestnut.

I don’t think we know why people vote Reform if we didn’t vote for them NotSpaghetti. I suspect you’re right in that it was a protest vote, but if voters wanted to protest I’d have thought that they would have voted Labour or Lib/Dem. I do think that immigration was probably a major factor. I not accusing anyone of racism, just saying what I think may have been a factor.

Trouble at Reform HQ. Farage has replaced Habib as deputy leader and put Tice in his place - which makes sense as Tice won a seat and Habib didn't - but he isn't happy:

I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position.

I am considering my position more generally in light of this change.

I have long held concerns about the control of the party and the decision making processes.

I will reflect on all of this.

This is what happens when a political party has no democractic process, no constitution, no voting rights. It's just a company with shareholders. Habib has none and Farage holds the majority with the others held by Tice, Oakden and A'zami. They can't outvote him. He can do what he likes.

Hasn’t Tice put a lot of money into the company? Is Habib now only disgruntled because he has been ousted? What was he ok with the system in place before? I know he says he had concerns anyway but why be in a party/company that you know isn’t democratic in any way?

Again, I have sympathy for Reform being such a new party. Even the Greens have been around 34 years, plenty of time to organise themselves. Reform is not yet a functioning party, needs to get their act together, expel the racists and loons and get their structure and finances in place. Creating a new party must be very challenging, especially when a lot of homeless, unpleasant loons are trying to jump on board (as we have seen).

Merion

Trouble at Reform HQ. Farage has replaced Habib as deputy leader and put Tice in his place - which makes sense as Tice won a seat and Habib didn't - but he isn't happy:

I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position.

I am considering my position more generally in light of this change.

I have long held concerns about the control of the party and the decision making processes.

I will reflect on all of this.

This is what happens when a political party has no democractic process, no constitution, no voting rights. It's just a company with shareholders. Habib has none and Farage holds the majority with the others held by Tice, Oakden and A'zami. They can't outvote him. He can do what he likes.

He was paraded and heralded and praised at the big show as a keynote speaker - perhaps partly to show multiculturalism - but gets dropped when not convenient and suddenly questions the very basis of the whole endeavour with his experience in business?

Wyllow3

Merion

Trouble at Reform HQ. Farage has replaced Habib as deputy leader and put Tice in his place - which makes sense as Tice won a seat and Habib didn't - but he isn't happy:

I have just been informed by Nigel Farage that Richard Tice is taking over as deputy leader of the party. Consequently I no longer hold that position.

I am considering my position more generally in light of this change.

I have long held concerns about the control of the party and the decision making processes.

I will reflect on all of this.

This is what happens when a political party has no democractic process, no constitution, no voting rights. It's just a company with shareholders. Habib has none and Farage holds the majority with the others held by Tice, Oakden and A'zami. They can't outvote him. He can do what he likes.

He was paraded and heralded and praised at the big show as a keynote speaker - perhaps partly to show multiculturalism - but gets dropped when not convenient and suddenly questions the very basis of the whole endeavour with his experience in business?

Because of Reforms structure - Ltd Company with only a couple of officers, the ability to sue the company will be relatively easy.

Chestnut

Again, I have sympathy for Reform being such a new party. Even the Greens have been around 34 years, plenty of time to organise themselves. Reform is not yet a functioning party, needs to get their act together, expel the racists and loons and get their structure and finances in place. Creating a new party must be very challenging, especially when a lot of homeless, unpleasant loons are trying to jump on board (as we have seen).

So why ( using my best Caroline Aherne voice…) do you think Reform attracts racists and loons in the first place?

MayBee70

Chestnut

Again, I have sympathy for Reform being such a new party. Even the Greens have been around 34 years, plenty of time to organise themselves. Reform is not yet a functioning party, needs to get their act together, expel the racists and loons and get their structure and finances in place. Creating a new party must be very challenging, especially when a lot of homeless, unpleasant loons are trying to jump on board (as we have seen).

So why ( using my best Caroline Aherne voice…) do you think Reform attracts racists and loons in the first place?

Exactly

MayBee70

Chestnut

Again, I have sympathy for Reform being such a new party. Even the Greens have been around 34 years, plenty of time to organise themselves. Reform is not yet a functioning party, needs to get their act together, expel the racists and loons and get their structure and finances in place. Creating a new party must be very challenging, especially when a lot of homeless, unpleasant loons are trying to jump on board (as we have seen).

So why ( using my best Caroline Aherne voice…) do you think Reform attracts racists and loons in the first place?

Maybe these people feel they stand a better chance of entering politics with Reform, and so attach themselves. There is only BNP which is hard right and maybe they don't fancy that. That's all I can think of.

Well, for one thing, most other parties, when hearing some of the racist things they’ve said over the years, wouldn’t accept them.