Riots in Southport

I think you’re burying your head in the sand tickingbird. It wasn’t a day trip, it was an organised event. The EDF communicates to its members, and they turn up from all over the country to join in. It may have declined in the 2010s, but there’s a definite resurgence.
Casdon. Please explain this comment.

Casdon is saying there is resurgence in the popularity of the EDL and similar organisations. The protest (can it even be called a protest) at the cenotaph, the anti Palestine stuff was all organised by the EDL and TR too

There were questions in the house this week, when Reform supporters no doubt expected their leader to be in the forefront of the debate -

Not a bit of it - he was - as usual - nowhere to be seen.

Instead he is going full on Trump and stirring on social media

“A former counter-terrorism police chief has accused Nigel Farage of helping incite violence that broke out in Southport after the killing of three children in a knife attack this week.
Farage drew criticism from across the political spectrum for remarks he made in a video on Tuesday in which he questioned “whether the truth is being withheld from us” after the attack on Monday.
Neil Basu – a former senior Scotland Yard officer who was in charge of counter-terrorism from 2018 to 2021 – said there were “real world consequences” when public figures failed to “keep their mouth shut”.
“Nigel Farage is giving the EDL [English Defence League] succour, undermining the police, creating conspiracy theories, and giving a false basis for the attacks on the police,” he said, referring to the far-right, Islamophobic group whose supporters are believed to have been involved in the rioting in Southport.
“Has Nigel Farage condemned the violence? Has he condemned the EDL? Fomenting discord in society is what these people seem to exist for,” Basu added.

Farage was also described on Wednesday as “nothing better than a Tommy Robinson in a suit” by Brendan Cox, the campaigner and husband of the murdered Labour MP, Jo Cox. Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, founded the EDL in 2009.

There was a rapid spread online of misinformation after the attack, with inflammatory far-right narratives rife on the comment threads under posts by Farage and another Reform MP, Rupert Lowe, on their official Facebook pages.

Under posts by Farage and Lowe, who echoed Farage by saying there was “more to this than we’re being told”, comments ranged from predictions of a coming race war, sharing of misinformation, antisemitic tropes and claims of a cover-up.
“This is clearly not a case of accidental mischaracterisation.

This is Reform and Farage in particular actively spreading disinformation and actively using insinuation to incite anxiety, concern and inflame emotions,” Cox said.

Farage was described as “utterly shameful” by the Tory peer Lord Barwell, the former MP who served as Theresa May’s Downing Street chief of staff.
He said: “He is an MP. If he has questions, he could have asked them in the House of Commons yesterday – but he wasn’t there. Instead he prefers to encourage those spreading misinformation on here [social media]. Utterly shameful.”

nanna8

Just to clarify- anyone who is against people arriving in the UK by boats with the intention of staying and by passing normal immigration channels is ‘far right’? Seems a bit strange to me. Anyone who is anti the Palestinians and Hamas is ‘far right’?
These labels don’t seem helpful at all, more hateful than helpful.

No, they aren't. The politics of those are far wider and complex.

This thread has focused on the Southport situation, and the involvement of extreme right groups in an anti-muslim/anti-police riot.

Labelling inappropriately I agree is unhelpful.

However these far right groups have existed in the UK in different shapes and forms since the 1930's and the Southport manifestation of them, how they organise, how they behave, what their targets are, are very real.

The Hope not Hate website offers real insight into these groups and their intentions. Their intention is not just anti-Islam, it is to disrupt law and order when they feel it isnt going their way hence attacks directly on the police.

(btw I dont belong to x or any similar SM/Facebook group if I get information. It only needs a few key words in a search engine for relevant X pages to come up, like the Hope not Hate website)

(Correction, Hope not hate isn't an X sites)

JaneJudge

Casdon is saying there is resurgence in the popularity of the EDL and similar organisations. The protest (can it even be called a protest) at the cenotaph, the anti Palestine stuff was all organised by the EDL and TR too

As with everything else it all depends on where you source your information. Approximately 30 minutes ago I listened to an expert on integration speaking about this and he said he understands the EDL doesn’t have a website and as far he knows it doesn’t really exist as an organisation. That’s not to say these rioters aren’t despicable and I will not tolerate being accused of supporting them.

People need to wake up to lazy, inaccurate reporting and then come on here repeating it.

I saw there were further riots last night, some in London and some in other places. I hope they left Southport alone at least.

nanna8 you are right to pick up on the term far right. It is quite often bandied about on here and used to describe anything or anyone who is right of centre. These rioters are thugs, never mind far right. Just vile thugs.

tickingbird anyone who has accused you of supporting the rioters is way out of order. You are a valued member of GN. And have been particularly helpful with your comments about the Gaza situation.

It's important to distinguish between the very different right wing views just as it is between left wing. I agree it's wise not to bandy terms about but be more precise.

A major difference is that the extreme far right groups like the EDL operate outside our normal democratic processes. They don't put people up for elections. But they are not just thugs, although many are thugs. There is an ideology behind it, again, see Hope not Hate.

Another feature of the very far right groups differentiating them from mainstream politics is that they have been in the sights of counterterrorist authorities over the years.
Tommy Robinson is:
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/28/tommy-robinson-says-he-has-been-arrested-under-terrorism-act

Simple question.

Why riot?

Surely a case by case question, not sure what you mean WWM.

tickingbird

JaneJudge

Casdon is saying there is resurgence in the popularity of the EDL and similar organisations. The protest (can it even be called a protest) at the cenotaph, the anti Palestine stuff was all organised by the EDL and TR too

As with everything else it all depends on where you source your information. Approximately 30 minutes ago I listened to an expert on integration speaking about this and he said he understands the EDL doesn’t have a website and as far he knows it doesn’t really exist as an organisation. That’s not to say these rioters aren’t despicable and I will not tolerate being accused of supporting them.

People need to wake up to lazy, inaccurate reporting and then come on here repeating it.

Or rather, people need to source their information from a variety of sites across the political spectrum rather than a few which reinforce their beliefs. A lot of us do that already. I’m not accusing you of anything other than burying your head in the sand about this particular issue tickingbird.

Just a reminder of your statement:

‘Growstuff the EDL has been in decline for years and is no longer anything to do with Tommy Robinson (i have no idea if he fronts another group)I don’t even know if the BNP exist anymore.Thugs are thugs regardless of their ethnicity and as for far right don’t make me laugh. Do you seriously believe those hooligans causing trouble last night have a clue about politics? No different to labelling the Leeds rioters as far left.’

EDL are organised into "divisions"

Why riot?

These rioters are despicable in my opinion. What do they think will be achieved? It’s so insensitive to the families of the dear little girls who have died and to the families of those who have been injured.

Well yes if you label everything far right then when the real far right come along and nobody listens, well its not surprising. If anyone uses the term far right these days I go and read up about the person they are labelling. It's a term like nazi and culture war which has been rendered meaningless.

The disorder in Southport was the second gathering linked to far-right activity in the space of less than a week, after tens of thousands of supporters of activist and English Defense League founder Tommy Robinson filled Trafalgar Square in London Saturday.

That takes quite high levels of organisation/communication.

In the 1930's these sort of groups named jews as the "enemy" but currently it is driven by anti-muslim memes, not just against new incomers but against people who have been UK citizens for years

Galaxy

Well yes if you label everything far right then when the real far right come along and nobody listens, well its not surprising. If anyone uses the term far right these days I go and read up about the person they are labelling. It's a term like nazi and culture war which has been rendered meaningless.

A good point.

I suspect that one of the reasons for these trigger point riots is the current heatwave. This is a known phenomena www.bbc.com/future/article/20200817-the-sinister-ways-heatwaves-warp-the-mind

maddyone

^Why riot?^

These rioters are despicable in my opinion. What do they think will be achieved? It’s so insensitive to the families of the dear little girls who have died and to the families of those who have been injured.

They're Rent-a-Mob anarchists, any excuse will do, even people's grief means nothing to them.

Galaxy

Well yes if you label everything far right then when the real far right come along and nobody listens, well its not surprising. If anyone uses the term far right these days I go and read up about the person they are labelling. It's a term like nazi and culture war which has been rendered meaningless.

Agree. Terms like racist and far right are thrown around so much now on here that they are as meaningless as “gammon” which seems to have finally run its course.

Some EDF rioters were clearly in it for free beer and fags, otherwise why loot a shop?

maddyone

tickingbird anyone who has accused you of supporting the rioters is way out of order. You are a valued member of GN. And have been particularly helpful with your comments about the Gaza situation.

Thank you Mandy x

Maddy!

So Starmer announces he is going to get tough on rioters.

How come he didn’t get tough on the Romanian community in Leeds recently who were burning cars, turning over ambulances, throwing rocks etc?