Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

I tend to go with those who know what they are talking about.

The WBO (World Boxing Organisation) are the experts.

Whitewavemark2

We will agree to disagree on this one I think.

I think it's very obvious that you are unwilling to comment on buccal swabs. So it would seem likely you disagree with them. Is that because they prove the sex of the person, or maybe you think all criminal convictions based on them should be vacated as they're 'not reliable'.

It could and should be put to bed by testing everybody automatically That seems to me the only way forward if this person does test as a female then she is exonerated and if they don’t pass the test they are out and surely that is the only answer
If they do turn out to be female then it’s been an awful thing to go through. If they have high levels of testosterone then they are gone for good with a cheat title ,
Seems a simple solution for everyone the boxer in question particularly

Do I remember Tessa Sanderson going through some tough times with accusations or have I just made that up !

Do I remember Tessa Sanderson going through some tough times with accusations or have I just made that up !

I thought that was Fatima Whitbread, who competed when everybody was buccal swabbed, so she was definitely female!

Whitewavemark2

And yes of course I agree with routine sex screening.

Sorry I missed this post, I obviously didn't refresh often enough. I'm pleased you agree with sex screening. These two boxers have failed a sex screen test, were eliminated from competition, and yet didn't appeal to the CAS as they were entitled to.

Sex screening is no longer done for the Olympics, they discontinued it despite the vast majority of females voting in favour of keeping it. There are no plans to reintroduce sex screening. And yet they test for a multitude of drug offences. I suppose because that affects the male category too.

I must admit when I heard her speak she sounded female.

Rosie51

Whitewavemark2

I absolutely agree that the trans issue needs urgent addressing in sport and other areas such as female space.

But I absolutely reject the the misinformation and hate being displayed over a young woman and her sex.

There isn’t a person on this thread who knows the truth behind the women in question medical history’s
We do know that the young Algerian was born a woman, lives as a woman and plays sport as a woman.

To suggest otherwise without knowing the truth is cruel, divisive and wrong.

Until we (if ever) know her medical history, we are in no position whatsoever to comment.

Only the sports bodies are in that position. As science and information changes, so do the rules etc.

Speaking from ignorance gets us nowhere.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue. That is on its way to being addressed, no male who has gone through puberty is eligible to enter the female class in an ever increasing number of sports.

This is something quite different. there are males born with the DSD 5Ard who, being possessed of indeterminate genitalia, have been registered female at birth. This initial mistake does not alter that they are in fact male, no matter how they are dressed, socially accepted, or view themselves. When they fail to menstruate but go through male puberty they gain all the physical advantages that bestows. You declined to answer whether or not you agree with routine sex screening by the one off buccal swab. I can only wonder why. This is a reliable test, the results of which are used in criminal trials and upheld by the highest courts. If they're accurate for criminals why would they not be accurate for athletes? If any athlete who has beaten female opposition was proved to be male would you side with them, or the opponents who were denied their success?

I'm not sure what part of that explanation is difficult to understand, Rosie51.

But this issue has nothing whatsoever to do with the trans issue.
Nor do I understand why it keeps being referred to as a transgender issue when it is not.

I would feel very sorry for someone assigned the wrong sex at birth and it happens very rarely indeed but going through male puberty would be an indication that more investigation is needed.

Just seen Mark Adams at today's briefing utter the words "we managed to get rid of sex testing in the last century (yep 1999)" This begs the question, why? Why would you want to stop sex testing? Especially as the vast majority of female athletes wanted it retained. They never explain why it's not necessary, yet drug testing expands year on year.

Yes your right Rosie it was Fatima not Tessa old age taking over the brain so she was tested and proved her point so what is the reason for them not continuing to do that surely this person would welcome being cleared and all the nastiness go away Couldnt she go to her own doctor/ hospital and have the test and show the paperwork to the world and prove her true gender identity and we could all stop going round in circles then even if the Olympic comittee don’t do the test they could clear their own name

Rosie51

Syracute

GrannyGravy13

I trust Sharon Davies.

This is a false statement based on the discredited IBA.

I have read many articles on this and many newspapers and no one is supporting this FALSE statement .

So you're calling Sharon Davies a liar? Any idea why neither boxer appealed the decision since they'd know that a sex screening test would confirm their biological sex?
Even now the two boxers could agree to sex screening to put this to bed once and for all. It's a simple cheek swab, nothing onerous, takes no time, as Sharon Davies has said when she (along with all other athletes) was subjected to it years ago. Once in a lifetime and the result is recorded forever. You have to wonder why this simple, accurate process was stopped despite the vast majority of women being in favour of keeping it.

I don’t know where Sharon Davies found her info but yes it is false and a lie. People on this thread keep spinning these lies and it very unfortunate because there is no truth behind them .

I can’t imagine the pressure the young woman is under. She totally burst into tears when she won her fight, and wrote her name on the canvas.

I think that this needs to be put aside for this olympics, all the division and hate to stop immediately and re-looked at during the period of calm and reflection.

Of course it may be found that she doesn’t pass the test, but the fact that she has been accepted this time is not her fault snd to treat her as people are doing is disgusting.

Mark Adams confirmed at today's briefing that yes the IOC received the letter from IBA in June'23. The IOC decide IBA were to be discredited that same month. The tests were carried out at the New Delhi lab which is an accredited lab. He didn't comment on or deny the results but just said that basically they didn't like the reason and timing of why the tests were done. Then went on to his "we managed to get rid of sex testing...."
Perhaps, regardless of the rights or wrongs in this case, you just don't care about fairness to female athletes.

My previous post was to Syracute

Whitewave you say
I think that this needs to be put aside for this olympics, all the division and hate to stop immediately and re-looked at during the period of calm and reflection.

Of course it may be found that she doesn’t pass the test, but the fact that she has been accepted this time is not her fault snd to treat her as people are doing is disgusting.

And what of the competitors who have been eliminated? Do they not count for anything? They may have missed their only chance to compete at this level. Do a sex screening test now which will either confirm the rumours or shut down the whole mess.

A propos Rosie51’s post, I am fed up to the back teeth with men explaining to us what a woman is. This is all about men. Men protecting themselves and take, take, taking from women.

One thing's for sure, after this furore, the national governing bodies of all sports will be tightening up their criteria for female athletes. Straightforward testing. Just do it.

Aveline

One thing's for sure, after this furore, the national governing bodies of all sports will be tightening up their criteria for female athletes. Straightforward testing. Just do it.

You'd think so wouldn't you, but not if IOC have their way.
IOC spokesman Mark Adams told reporters. "I hope we all agree that we're not calling for people to go back to the days of sex testing which was a terrible, terrible thing to do. This involves real people and we're talking about real people's lives here." Yes there was a time when the sex testing was abusive and abhorrent. Some women were subjected to parading naked in front of a panel of (usually) men, subjected to invasive intimate examination and more. Then came buccal swabs, a cotton bud wiped on the inside of your cheek, and bish bash bosh, all done. Send off to the lab, results confirm male or female. Every single athlete gets tested once in their life, the result is on record, no need ever to test for sex again. For some reason known only to them the IOC don't want this. Far better to go by the sex marker on a passport (which they know can be changed from the birth sex marker).

The whole issue is because some males decide to call themselves female, it’s nothing to do with “men” wanting to gain advantage over women. It’s up to individual sports to decide the allow trans individuals to compete with women, sports where physical strength and aggression is a factor its especially important.

Women have their own classes in most sports, equestrian is usually “open” to all competitors. Athletes get tested frequently to ensure they are not cheating by using drugs any extra tests to determine sex eligibility is of no consequence.

'Of no consequence'! Really?

“Of no consequence” - do you mean in any sport??

I think he means that the test itself should be carried out as it is of no consequence as they are tested for various reasons anyway.

Whitewavemark2

I can’t imagine the pressure the young woman is under. She totally burst into tears when she won her fight, and wrote her name on the canvas.

I think that this needs to be put aside for this olympics, all the division and hate to stop immediately and re-looked at during the period of calm and reflection.

Of course it may be found that she doesn’t pass the test, but the fact that she has been accepted this time is not her fault snd to treat her as people are doing is disgusting.

I absolutely agree.

No. I'm not willing for this issue to be 'put aside' for this Olympics or any other. It's not OK. Those two were found to be men on previous testing which they didn't contest but just sent ahead and had a go at entering the Olympics. How many real females must suffer and lose their chances before we stop just being sorry for these ones?

Aveline

No. I'm not willing for this issue to be 'put aside' for this Olympics or any other. It's not OK. Those two were found to be men on previous testing which they didn't contest but just sent ahead and had a go at entering the Olympics. How many real females must suffer and lose their chances before we stop just being sorry for these ones?

None of us actually know if these two boxers are or are not biologically female.

I agree every sportsperson, over 18, should have a buccal swab test when they start to compete. There should be an option to appeal or redo the test if there’s any issue.

It really is too late now in this Olympics.

I feel sorry for all the female boxers, including the two highlighted.

It really is too late now in this Olympics.

I disagree. Given that every medal winner will be compelled to give a sample to be checked for drug misuse, and the result will be known very quickly, with guilty parties immediately disqualified, why not a sex test too? Athletes are subject to 'out of competition' random drug testing in an effort to maintain fairness, but the IOC are resolute in their opposition to sex testing. Why they have zero interest in maintaining women's sport for females only is anyone's guess.

In my opinion buccal swabs should be taken as soon as accredited competition starts, not wait until the athletes are 18.
Too many areas in sport are allowing self ID that will result in some girls not wanting to continue when they are matched against boys who they just can't beat. Elite athletes don't just appear at 18 they've been working their socks off for years and years.

I'll say one thing for Mark Smith: once he and the IOC are in a hole, he really knows how to carry on digging.