Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

Shame on you all for believing fake information spread by pundits and non accredited news sites . There was her Dad with her birth certificate today and you will still deny she is female . This thread should be shut down for promoting hate speech .

Rosie51

^It really is too late now in this Olympics.^

I disagree. Given that every medal winner will be compelled to give a sample to be checked for drug misuse, and the result will be known very quickly, with guilty parties immediately disqualified, why not a sex test too? Athletes are subject to 'out of competition' random drug testing in an effort to maintain fairness, but the IOC are resolute in their opposition to sex testing. Why they have zero interest in maintaining women's sport for females only is anyone's guess.

In my opinion buccal swabs should be taken as soon as accredited competition starts, not wait until the athletes are 18.
Too many areas in sport are allowing self ID that will result in some girls not wanting to continue when they are matched against boys who they just can't beat. Elite athletes don't just appear at 18 they've been working their socks off for years and years.

I understand about when sporting competitors start competing, would you consent as a parent to a child being tested??

Can we please stop referring to this issue as “trans” it isn’t!

Both these boxers were declared or defined at birth as female, they were brought up as female, they believe they are female, their family believe they are female.

As I keep stating none of us know the truth

Test by all means, but test everyone

Yes that is what many of the the profile athletes are asking for.

Cossy yes as a parent I'd accept a child being tested as soon as they started accredited competition. It's a cheek swab. If they've ever visited a dentist they've had far more probing into their mouth. It's not embarrassing, invasive or intimate, what's to worry about?
Actually re-reading your post do you mean a child who isn't into competitive sports? I'd not object per se but would think it an awful waste of money when their sex was irrelevant.

Test by all means, but test everyone I agree!! Perhaps you could join in those who want the IOC to reinstate sex testing which they are determined not to do.

Syracute nobody is promoting hate, just fairness to all. Do you understand that is well known that sometimes a male baby with the DSD 5Ard is mistakenly thought to be a girl, and registered as such. There are documented cases, so a birth certificate can be wrong. Given that trans people are given the right to change the sex marker on their birth certificate in an increasing number of countries, reliance on this document will naturally decrease over time.

High profile that should say.

Rosie51

Cossy yes as a parent I'd accept a child being tested as soon as they started accredited competition. It's a cheek swab. If they've ever visited a dentist they've had far more probing into their mouth. It's not embarrassing, invasive or intimate, what's to worry about?
Actually re-reading your post do you mean a child who isn't into competitive sports? I'd not object per se but would think it an awful waste of money when their sex was irrelevant.

Test by all means, but test everyone I agree!! Perhaps you could join in those who want the IOC to reinstate sex testing which they are determined not to do.

Syracute nobody is promoting hate, just fairness to all. Do you understand that is well known that sometimes a male baby with the DSD 5Ard is mistakenly thought to be a girl, and registered as such. There are documented cases, so a birth certificate can be wrong. Given that trans people are given the right to change the sex marker on their birth certificate in an increasing number of countries, reliance on this document will naturally decrease over time.

You have NO proof that this woman is anything but a woman she has fought 90 fights as a woman and lost 9 . The only information that conflicts with this is from a discredited boxing association that is run by Russians who might have a reason to discredit this woman . Since you are persisting in claiming otherwise and supporting this false information like so many others I call it hate speech . You will find no credible information that says otherwise . Please stop !

XX or XY is pretty conclusive. Just test. Test now before medals are awarded.

We are discussing something that is all over the media and is being discussed by sports people at all levels.

Don’t tell people what they can and cannot post Syracute

Aveline

XX or XY is pretty conclusive. Just test. Test now before medals are awarded.

I agree.
Anyone who refuses a test should be disqualified.

Oreo

Don’t tell people what they can and cannot post Syracute

I am tired of people posting without facts .
What’s wrong about telling people to stop rumors and hate talk . That is what this is I have read extensively on this . Yet someone will come and continue the hate . The title of this thread itself is a lie .

The title is wrong and as far as I am aware has been reported. We are discussing what has been reported widely in all media. The discussion is now about sex testing within sport which is a perfectly reasonable subject of debate.

“You have NO proof that this woman is anything but a woman she has fought 90 fights as a woman and lost 9”

This is the most telling thing isn’t it? The surprising thing is that she’s lost 9 against women! A buccal test as an adult would prove it - which is why she won’t take it of course!

Don’t try to validate these horrible accusations by saying that the thread subject has changed . It is still promoting the idea that woman have to be tested . Tests which have proven to be inaccurate. This is not new subject to the Olympics . It is as old as the Olympics itself .
No respectable media source is questioning this woman’s gender .

We are allowed to discuss the idea of testing within sports. Sorry but we are.

You of course are perfectly entitled to argue against that.

“This is not new subject to the Olympics . It is as old as the Olympics itself .”

Testing? I think not Syracute! Imagine Ancient Greece with test tubes and swabs…my aching sides 🤣

Galaxy

We are allowed to discuss the idea of testing within sports. Sorry but we are.

Of course we are.
And sex assigned at birth can, in rare cases, be wrong.

Providing a buccal swab for testing is easy and would put paid to a lot of questions and controversy.

Syracute

Don’t try to validate these horrible accusations by saying that the thread subject has changed . It is still promoting the idea that woman have to be tested . Tests which have proven to be inaccurate. This is not new subject to the Olympics . It is as old as the Olympics itself .
No respectable media source is questioning this woman’s gender .

Where is your evidence for Tests which have proven to be inaccurate. You wouldn't be wanting to posting rumours or inaccuracies would you? These buccal swabs are identical to those used by law enforcement agencies worldwide, many resulting in convictions for crimes, yet you say they're proven to be inaccurate? You really need to back that up with verifiable evidence or withdraw it.

The original Olympics didn't permit women contestants, they performed naked, I think a non-man would have been noticed!

I don't know whether these two athletes are genetically male or female and neither do you, but if I was in their position I would volunteer a DNA test to clear my name and stop the speculation in its tracks. The vast majority of female athletes want the reinstatement of the buccal swabs, why are you so against this majority wish?

... This discussant bleeds of contradiction by stating that the most definitive method is a test that examines the athlete's DNA but prefaces that there can be anomalies. But the question remains if there are anomalies how exact is this form of measurement that is supposed to allow an individual to fit in either/or category of male and female as the experience of Spain's Olympian top hurdler Maria Patino demonstrates (Dickinson et al., 2002;Fausto-Sterling, 2000;McDonagh & Pappano, 2008;Wackwitz, 2003). As feminist and biologist Anne Fausto-Sterling (2000) states, the chromosome test was eventually eliminated because the body's sex is much more complex and a test examining the genetic makeup is not a conclusive method to determine sex. ...

From a scientific journal found in ResearchGate.

It’s a complex subject isn’t it
Yes the title is completely wrong This person is not trans and they did NOT make the Italian girl quit, she chose to do that herself, but surely everyone can agree that the situation (for the Algerian as much as anyone) needs correcting and making sure it never happens again or else next Olympics will be full of ‘masculine’ females
There is a test that has proved correct enough to be used by many agencies There must be a reason Imane Khelif isn’t biting their hands off to do it or even pay to have it done privately to prove who he/ she is and put this all to bed

If they are really a female it must be so awful for them constantly being accused but if they are male they are totally cheating and need to go as do all others who are in this questionable state

Strange there’s never any ‘questionable’ people wanting to fight/ run/ jump in the men’s events though is there ?

Yes, the title is wrong and I have reported it and asked GNHQ to amend it. I took the thread title from a news feed I saw on line and that was how this was initially reported.

Before you can test for someone being female you have to define what female is. I have just tried googling a definition of female and it comes up with half a dozen different definitions. Chromosomes, hormones, testosterone, unless everyone can agree on a definition there will always be controversy.