False information and incitement on SM and prosecuting the perpetrators

I would have thought Islamaphobia is self explanatory, phobia being an irrational fear.

That fear isn't completely unfounded if homegrown terror attacks such as London 7/7, 56 fatalities, Manchester Arena 23 fatalities to give two examples have occured. When the news of the thwarted terror attack of planes crossing the Atlantic, I had a fear of getting on planes after that, I didn't particularly fancy going up to a main London theatre after Bataclan I had a fear of travelling about London at the height of the IRA bombing campaign, even though no such label as IRAaphobia was attached at that time, but certainly people had such phobias. Bins were removed from stations to quell fears, people were edgy and twitchy getting on to packed trains back then. Men chuck their rucksacks up in luggage racks, who knows whether their owner is there with them, that was another phobia/fear, of mine, call it what you will.

Having said that I don't wish to conflate fears and phobias with the wave of hatred directed against the Muslim population which is abhorrent, anarchic and I see those who carry out such actions as trying to destabalise community relations. As with any atrocity carried out by offshoots one can't attribute that to that demographic as a whole. I imagine it's fair to say that the majority of peaceful Muslims have their own phobias against those who are perpetuating the current round of attacks on the street and they would be justified. Any atrocity that produces mass fatalities/casualties against random strangers, will produce fears. Ensuing fears can at times be irrational and irrational fears equal phobias.

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

terribull Islamaphobia is not formalised in British law.

Anti-semitism is.

We should afford them the same courtesy.

Yes you are probably right in that WW and I think with the spate of current violence, it's more a case of irrational hate for the sake of hating people who are different, such as anti semitism. It's just that I feel phobia is more of a feeling of fear.

Freya5

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

Have you never met people who just don't want to integrate into mainstream society? In many cases, they're harmless and just want to get on with their lives, but there are some who actively want to attack mainstream society because they're nobodies in it, but being attackers gives them self-importance.

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

Freya5

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

Yes it does and so does ignorance.

Wrt these 'riots' because lets face it, they aren't marches or protests, it is Islamophobia. They are marching in certain areas to cause trouble otherwise they would stick to High streets surely, not residential areas. It is targeted abuse. The people who live in the houses must be so frightened

Islamaphobia is on a par with antisemitism. Racism is illegal wherever it is found.

BevSec

Very good article by Richard Littlejohn in the Daily Mail this morning. Labour are blaming everything on “the far right”. He thinks exactly as I do on so many issues but can express them far, far better than .i can. Worth a read if only for a more balanced point of view.

Balance, yes needed much on here.

Wrt these 'riots' because lets face it, they aren't marches or protests, it is Islamophobia.

There isn't even much logic to the 'Islamphobic' motive. I'm told that the small town local to me is one of today's targets. A town where the immigrant population is practically zero. A few Asian small shopkeepers and takeaway food outlets is the extent of 'diversity'' in that town... Any 'protest' gathering will be just performative and any 'rioting' would be sheer badness...

JaneJudge

Freya5

JaneJudge

You can talk about immigration and politics but this is about outsiders trying to destroy our communities. Organised violence carried out by people from outside in our towns whilst they all return to their villages. It is senseless and unnecessary and is a problem. How anyone can support this is beyond me.

Maybe if these violent men integrated more they'd have less to fear

Integration works both ways wouldn't you say.

Yes it does and so does ignorance.

Wrt these 'riots' because lets face it, they aren't marches or protests, it is Islamophobia. They are marching in certain areas to cause trouble otherwise they would stick to High streets surely, not residential areas. It is targeted abuse. The people who live in the houses must be so frightened

Are you calling me ignorant !!

Mt61

I haven’t read on here, that anyone has called a person for the colour of their skin, or persuaded anyone to go out & riot- unless posts have been taken down before I have had chance to read them.
I have a had a few post taken down, a couple I’ve had removed because I’ve posted too soon (but looks like it’s been removed for some other reason). There is nothing wrong in having a healthy debate about what’s a fact- too much illegal migration, simply because we haven’t the infrastructure- nothing wrong in saying that whatsoever. You will find thousands of mums, dads, grandparents & younger generation have voted for Reform, if the voting system had have been different/ fairer Reform would have had more seats. It’s not a crime to vote Reform. I bet 99% of these voters are horrified by the mindset of these thugs, who certainly should be imprisoned. Reform is certainly not a far right group, in my mind more like the Tories of old- if they don’t come up to parr, then I won’t be voting for them next time round- but I definitely will never vote Labour

Yet it is Farage himself who has been fanning the flames of the of these riots . Shame on him and Elon Musk .

growstuff

BevSec

Growstuff, I have, as yet, only just started the book, but so far his writing has seemed very moderate, balanced and dispassionate to me. Its better really to have more of an open mind by being able to see different sides to a debate than just your own point of view. It makes for more toleration of others in my opinion.

Which is precisely why I do read what he writes and I find him unbalanced.

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.

I haven’t a clue what he’s said, certainly nothing that I’ve heard anyway, but maybe that’s because I don’t go looking for it. And I’m not going to start now, I’ve got better things to do.

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.
Not necessarily. The first thing I do when faced with something I find unconscionable is to try to see it from the point of view of the person who said/wrote it. It’s the only way to understand - even if you want to dispute it you have to understand where they are coming from. There is often some common ground as a starting point, which can cut through a knee-jerk reaction.

Freya5

growstuff

BevSec

Growstuff, I have, as yet, only just started the book, but so far his writing has seemed very moderate, balanced and dispassionate to me. Its better really to have more of an open mind by being able to see different sides to a debate than just your own point of view. It makes for more toleration of others in my opinion.

Which is precisely why I do read what he writes and I find him unbalanced.

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.

Which is precisely what I would say about Matt Goodwin. He co-authored a book with Rob Ford about the referendum result. It was well-researched and the two of them made a number of hypotheses about the reasons for the result. That book was factual and well-balanced.

Since then, Goodwin has become ever more extreme and unbalanced in his views. He and Ford have fallen out and have occasional online disagreements for all to see. Goodwin no longer even claims to be "balanced" in his views.

Doodledog

*That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.*
Not necessarily. The first thing I do when faced with something I find unconscionable is to try to see it from the point of view of the person who said/wrote it. It’s the only way to understand - even if you want to dispute it you have to understand where they are coming from. There is often some common ground as a starting point, which can cut through a knee-jerk reaction.

Goodwin's views aren't "knee jerk". He holds very firm right wing views and has been consistent for a number of years.

LizzieDrip

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

I agree: in order to have prosecutions backed by full force of the law.

I was very disappointed yesterday to see someone I know ( and from whom I would have expected better) posting a screenshot of the amount of money refugees can get from the government ( £49 per week), and saying it is shocking, look after ‘our own’ first etc, and many others ‘liking’ the post. Then a couple of ‘ you can’t blame people for rioting’. That was what I found shocking.

I also wish the media would stop referring to riots ‘ all over the UK’, as I’m sure there have been none in Scotland. Mind you, I wouldn’t put it past the ones responsible for expanding their efforts.

Wyllow3

LizzieDrip

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

I agree: in order to have prosecutions backed by full force of the law.

I don’t agree at all ( well I wouldn’t would I being Jewish) but the thing is that antisemitism isn’t about religion it’s about being Jewish.All that I know don’t attend synagogue and are secular.Just like being Christian, followers of Islam are religious so if you want religion to be protected that’s a different matter.

Wyllow3

LizzieDrip

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

I agree: in order to have prosecutions backed by full force of the law.

I'd place a safe bet that that person holding the banner is not a church-goer.

Oreo

Wyllow3

LizzieDrip

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

I agree: in order to have prosecutions backed by full force of the law.

I don’t agree at all ( well I wouldn’t would I being Jewish) but the thing is that antisemitism isn’t about religion it’s about being Jewish.All that I know don’t attend synagogue and are secular.Just like being Christian, followers of Islam are religious so if you want religion to be protected that’s a different matter.

Yes, this is very true.

Daddima

I was very disappointed yesterday to see someone I know ( and from whom I would have expected better) posting a screenshot of the amount of money refugees can get from the government ( £49 per week), and saying it is shocking, look after ‘our own’ first etc, and many others ‘liking’ the post. Then a couple of ‘ you can’t blame people for rioting’. That was what I found shocking.

I also wish the media would stop referring to riots ‘ all over the UK’, as I’m sure there have been none in Scotland. Mind you, I wouldn’t put it past the ones responsible for expanding their efforts.

You can blame people for rioting but it’s also best to realise the difference between the real far right who are organising and whipping up hatred and those locals who turn up to see what’s going on.Teenagers find it exciting and follow the lead of adults and many of the young men taking part are disaffected, of no fixed abode and hopeless with maybe awful lives up to this point with no home or happy family.Many in prison are much the same.Having a pop at authority and joining in with others gives them a buzz, and they see that the asylum seekers are given hotels to live in.Riots are always wrong and the perpetrators will have to face sentences rightly but things are never as simple as they seem IMO.

I agree its not be the most useful/accurate term for anti-muslim hatred, and attacks on mosques, but it's what is being used.

Oreo

Wyllow3

LizzieDrip

I agree WW, Islamophobia should be on a par with Anti-Semitism in terms of the law.

I would like to see the Labour government address this. In fact, I’m going to write to my MP asking him to raise it in the HoC👍

I agree: in order to have prosecutions backed by full force of the law.

I don’t agree at all ( well I wouldn’t would I being Jewish) but the thing is that antisemitism isn’t about religion it’s about being Jewish.All that I know don’t attend synagogue and are secular.Just like being Christian, followers of Islam are religious so if you want religion to be protected that’s a different matter.

But my son-in-law, who was born into a Muslim family but is also secular, has experienced abuse for his background and for looking like an Arab. None of his family is particularly religious, but they would still describe themselves as Muslim.