False information and incitement on SM and prosecuting the perpetrators

Thanks Oreo, I take your point and I bow to your knowledge on the topic, as you’re Jewish.

The problem now is that the riots have gone beyond being against religion i.e. Islam, to being against people of colour. Sure, the rioters ‘mask’ their racism with words like Muslims, Mosques and immigrants. I believe we need to call it what it is … racism.

Anti-Semitic; Anti-people of colour; equally as disgusting IMO.

growstuff
Younger members of Muslim families often describe themselves so, they have to fit in with their families and communities but actually aren’t practising Muslims at all.
A better description if needed is Arab/ Asian/ Indian and so on.

Lizziedrip yeah, I think you’re right in that those rioting aren’t interested in if immigrants are practising Muslims or Christians or anything else.

In the instance of a person who was born into a certain religion, lives secularly but still describes themselves as that religion , perhaps their religion is their culture rather than their lived out faith? I am sure the same could be said for a section of people of all major religions.

At the same time there are those who are devout in their faith, live out it's rules and also practice the culture of it too.

Oreo

growstuff
Younger members of Muslim families often describe themselves so, they have to fit in with their families and communities but actually aren’t practising Muslims at all.
A better description if needed is Arab/ Asian/ Indian and so on.

Lizziedrip yeah, I think you’re right in that those rioting aren’t interested in if immigrants are practising Muslims or Christians or anything else.

I'll tell my son-in-law how some random person on a social media site called GN thinks he should describe himself.

PS. He doesn't live in a "Muslim community".

Oreo

growstuff
Younger members of Muslim families often describe themselves so, they have to fit in with their families and communities but actually aren’t practising Muslims at all.
A better description if needed is Arab/ Asian/ Indian and so on.

Lizziedrip yeah, I think you’re right in that those rioting aren’t interested in if immigrants are practising Muslims or Christians or anything else.

So why have there been threats to mosques?

And why is social media full of threats to Muslims?

There are real and substantial threats to our Muslim UK citizens whether Mosque attenders or not and to be effective it should be brought into law.

It's just like when you re asked your religion in hospital, many people say Church of England or whatever their parents practiced. It doesn't mean they believe a word of it.

I suppose for some, it's a cultural identity and group rather than a faith they practice.

Actions speak louder than words.

I also think that the rioters do not care about religion or how a person defines themselves, but race.

OnwardandUpward

I also think that the rioters do not care about religion or how a person defines themselves, but race.

I think you're right. I think it's a sort of tribalism.

I don't pretend to understand racial hatred at all.

Thats a big one Growstuff going well back historically!

Overall some kind of need to define "us" by disparaging or hating "them"?
Wars over territory, memes of empire, slavery ....theories of the superiority of the Aryan race from the 1930's that still pervade thinking, the need to blame and using race as the target.......

It might be a sort of tribalism? I just don't get it, honestly.
As much as I try to understand, I don't think it's religion, but I just have no idea as I can't fathom racial hatred either.

I just don’t get it either. Why so much hatred because of colour of skin, race, religion? We’re all human beings!

growstuff

Doodledog

That is on an individuals mindset though. If you strongly believe one set of values, it is difficult to accept any other.
Not necessarily. The first thing I do when faced with something I find unconscionable is to try to see it from the point of view of the person who said/wrote it. It’s the only way to understand - even if you want to dispute it you have to understand where they are coming from. There is often some common ground as a starting point, which can cut through a knee-jerk reaction.

Goodwin's views aren't "knee jerk". He holds very firm right wing views and has been consistent for a number of years.

I didn't say otherwise. I was responding to the idea that people can't see points of view that differ from their own. They can, and being able to do so needn't mean that they hold their own views any less strongly.

growstuff

Oreo

growstuff
Younger members of Muslim families often describe themselves so, they have to fit in with their families and communities but actually aren’t practising Muslims at all.
A better description if needed is Arab/ Asian/ Indian and so on.

Lizziedrip yeah, I think you’re right in that those rioting aren’t interested in if immigrants are practising Muslims or Christians or anything else.

I'll tell my son-in-law how some random person on a social media site called GN thinks he should describe himself.

Why so aggressive?
He can call himself what he likes but if he isn’t religious and not a practising Muslim then he isn’t actually Muslim.
Just as anyone calling themselves a Christian must believe in their own faith.Islam is a faith.
I am only as random as yourself btw😁

LizzieDrip

I just don’t get it either. Why so much hatred because of colour of skin, race, religion? We’re all human beings!

I think it’s exactly that, we’re all human beings with human frailty and traits.In the dim and distant past even villagers living a few miles from another one didn’t like them.We’re still pretty tribal and that includes all ethnicities.
In the case of immigrants coming here on small boats, it’s more the fact that they’re cheating the system in arriving in this way.Even government thinks so.

Whatever personal opinion you may hold immigrants/migrants are a fact of life, they are not going away, so this mindless violence must stop, it’s not going to achieve anything

Once this government doest its best to minimise the numbers and deals with them a lot faster when they arrive, this will go a long way to mollifying people here.This includes those who were immigrants themselves but came here legally.

Oreo

growstuff

Oreo

growstuff
Younger members of Muslim families often describe themselves so, they have to fit in with their families and communities but actually aren’t practising Muslims at all.
A better description if needed is Arab/ Asian/ Indian and so on.

Lizziedrip yeah, I think you’re right in that those rioting aren’t interested in if immigrants are practising Muslims or Christians or anything else.

I'll tell my son-in-law how some random person on a social media site called GN thinks he should describe himself.

Why so aggressive?
He can call himself what he likes but if he isn’t religious and not a practising Muslim then he isn’t actually Muslim.
Just as anyone calling themselves a Christian must believe in their own faith.Islam is a faith.
I am only as random as yourself btw😁

Well, he thinks he describes himself as Muslim, so who am I to say otherwise?

It’s not entirely about Islamophobia although much of it is. It’s also about not wanting more and more people of any race to be allowed into this country. We are an overcrowded country with stretched resources. I for one agree enough is enough. But the riots are not the way to sort it out.

Oreo

Daddima

I was very disappointed yesterday to see someone I know ( and from whom I would have expected better) posting a screenshot of the amount of money refugees can get from the government ( £49 per week), and saying it is shocking, look after ‘our own’ first etc, and many others ‘liking’ the post. Then a couple of ‘ you can’t blame people for rioting’. That was what I found shocking.

I also wish the media would stop referring to riots ‘ all over the UK’, as I’m sure there have been none in Scotland. Mind you, I wouldn’t put it past the ones responsible for expanding their efforts.

You can blame people for rioting but it’s also best to realise the difference between the real far right who are organising and whipping up hatred and those locals who turn up to see what’s going on.Teenagers find it exciting and follow the lead of adults and many of the young men taking part are disaffected, of no fixed abode and hopeless with maybe awful lives up to this point with no home or happy family.Many in prison are much the same.Having a pop at authority and joining in with others gives them a buzz, and they see that the asylum seekers are given hotels to live in.Riots are always wrong and the perpetrators will have to face sentences rightly but things are never as simple as they seem IMO.

Oreo, I very much doubt that the young locals just turned up ‘to see what was going on’, nor was there any sign, in the footage which I saw anyway, of what these people were protesting against, just as much damage as possible being done.
I heard a fellow on LBC who had driven from Essex to Middlesborough to protest against the ‘ blacks and Asians’.
However, I do agree that a lot of these youths were disaffected, and love having a pop at authority, but you only have to listen to them being interviewed to see that they really don’t know what it’s about.
You say that they see that asylum seekers are given hotels to live in, but my understanding is that hotels have been taken over to house the immigrants, four or six to a room, and being fed the equivalent of a school dinner, not in five star luxury, getting room service and cocktails from the bar! This is how the situation is portrayed on social media, complete with Photoshopped pictures, and that’s what a lot of people take as gospel.

I don’t know about six to a room, unless it’s a family situation.
Of course it’s not luxury hotels, but a hotel nevertheless.
Some younger people, mainly men but not always, exist without a home at all, on the streets or sofa surfing where they can.An underclass all but forgotten.
I do think locals came out to see what’s happening and then either joined in or didn’t and watched from the sidelines.
They didn’t all bus themselves in.

If you are going to argue about illegal immigration at least get the facts and terminology right. Migrants arriving by boat are not illegal immigrants. They are asylum seekers until their claims are processed and a decision is made as to whether or not their claim is valid. If their asylum claim is not approved they are deported. Approximately 80 % of asylum claims are genuine.

I know this already thanks greyisnotmycolour and would bet so does everyone on this site.
I simply don’t believe tho that 80% of asylum claims are genuine, not at all! What I do believe is that the Home Office is so inept and slow that it passes those as genuine to get the immense backlog sorted.
If done properly, if Starmer can galvanise that dept I will be very interested to see the true numbers.