Assisted dying

As sure as night follows day, MissA.

TheMaggiejane1

If assisted dying becomes the norm, how long will it be before you are considered to be a selfish nuisance if you don't comply.

Not long at all

Absolutely I am experience my father suffering in pain screaming out unable to move begging for someone to kill him all very disturbing not the type of end of life you'd wish on anyone

That is awful, just terrible.
I really don't see why someone can't be sedated at that point.

MissAdventure

Considering the lengths some parents will go to cushion their grown up children from living within their means, doing without, and so on, I wouldnt be at all surprised to see angst ridden posts on gransnet.
"Should I end it all so my dd can buy a house?'

Totally agree.

The proposed Assisted Dying Bill, is one I would have supported until recently, but after much thought I no longer believe that true “freedom of choice” is possible in our society. I am a humanist and have no religious act to grind. However having observed how legally Assisted Dying works in practice in other countries, notably Canada, I cannot support it.

If we were living less materialistic, fairer and compassionate society I would trust that the interests of the ill (physically and mentally) vulnerable and elderly would be secure when drawing up the “Safeguards” to the Bill.

I think the intentions for the Bill are sound, but looking at successive government’s treatment of the vulnerable in society, and indeed how many now live in poverty I can’t believe that believe that economic considerations would gradually outweigh ethical. How many countries have

Cont……..widened their criteria for AD after a few years? It’s quite sobering.

Sorry about errors in above. I’m ill in bed just now!
I meant to say if we were living in a less materialistic BUT fairer and compassionate society.

Lahlah 💐

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

In a lot of instances I think it could be a good thing but I don't trust 'people' to interpret the law effectively

theworriedwell

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

It's not about being "comfortable" with killing people per se! Its part of working with patients in their palliative end of life care.

Agree. The are many govt policies such water quality and certain crimes the govt does not enforce. There will be too much pillar to post and not my jobism. Again AD remains against the fundamentals of most people’s values. Just because Esther Rantzen supports something doesn’t make it right.

Madgran77

theworriedwell

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

It's not about being "comfortable" with killing people per se! Its part of working with patients in their palliative end of life care.

So are they comfortable with it or does it cause distress to them? Either way I don't think it is appropriate.

It can't be part of end of life palliative care as it isn't legal at the moment.

theworriedwell

Madgran77

theworriedwell

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

It's not about being "comfortable" with killing people per se! Its part of working with patients in their palliative end of life care.

So are they comfortable with it or does it cause distress to them? Either way I don't think it is appropriate.

It can't be part of end of life palliative care as it isn't legal at the moment.

Your posts suggest you are highly suspicious and anxious about the possibility of people having the choice about their end of life care. We are all different and of course I respect your views, which are different than mine.
You mentioned a difficult end of life experienced by one of your dogs. I’m sorry she suffered and you shared that suffering, one of mine had a difficult minute or two. My other dogs have gone to sleep in my arms, peacefully. Our big labradoodle lay between me and my husband. We sang and talked with her.

My husband died 2 years ago. His death was eased,thank God by morphine. I was by his side the last 8 days of his life. Our daughters and I spent four days with him as his life came to its end. He had stage 4 mets and had a series of increasingly catastrophic strokes. By day 5 one of our daughters said mum, yiu wouldn’t let a dog suffer like this. We should be able to help dad.
I recognise the concerns from many others. We had LPA medical, we were able to speak for him when that capacity was taken from him. Most families are loving. I’m sure safeguards can be put in place for those who would exploit things. Why should loving caring families be left unable to say, x was clear, if the reached this point, unable to swallow, speak, be involved in any way in decision making - they’d want it to end.

Iam64
I agree with you, what you describe is how I feel if idealistically we had some sort of autonomy over these decisions.

I think this is different from minority groups though.

Iam64

theworriedwell

Madgran77

theworriedwell

Thinking about this I'm not sure I'd want to be treated by a doctor or nurse who is comfortable with killing people. For doctors and nurses who wouldn't be comfortable with it I wouldn't expect them to do it.

It's not about being "comfortable" with killing people per se! Its part of working with patients in their palliative end of life care.

So are they comfortable with it or does it cause distress to them? Either way I don't think it is appropriate.

It can't be part of end of life palliative care as it isn't legal at the moment.

Your posts suggest you are highly suspicious and anxious about the possibility of people having the choice about their end of life care. We are all different and of course I respect your views, which are different than mine.
You mentioned a difficult end of life experienced by one of your dogs. I’m sorry she suffered and you shared that suffering, one of mine had a difficult minute or two. My other dogs have gone to sleep in my arms, peacefully. Our big labradoodle lay between me and my husband. We sang and talked with her.

My husband died 2 years ago. His death was eased,thank God by morphine. I was by his side the last 8 days of his life. Our daughters and I spent four days with him as his life came to its end. He had stage 4 mets and had a series of increasingly catastrophic strokes. By day 5 one of our daughters said mum, yiu wouldn’t let a dog suffer like this. We should be able to help dad.
I recognise the concerns from many others. We had LPA medical, we were able to speak for him when that capacity was taken from him. Most families are loving. I’m sure safeguards can be put in place for those who would exploit things. Why should loving caring families be left unable to say, x was clear, if the reached this point, unable to swallow, speak, be involved in any way in decision making - they’d want it to end.

I think the biggest worry is that when this has been introduced in other countries it has changed over time, the slippery slope if you like. How can we be sure that once this starts it won't morph into something different?

You are already advocating for something that isn't being suggested from what I've read. From my reading people who aren't able to be involved in the decision making wouldn't be eligible for assisted suicide.

I am so so sorry for what you have experienced Iam64 but. And it's a big but. Do you think people with learning disabilities receive the same level of healthcare that others do, do you think that the studies on the different outcomes for black women compared to white women in maternity care are worrying, do you think the medical profession showed any morality/sanity in the treatment of gender non conforming/ autistic children. Where were the safeguards on those issues. Why would this be any different.

The care providers want to safeguard my adult daughter with SLD by putting her on contraception just incase male staff accidentally rape her and she becomes pregnant
Could you even make this up?

Oh my God. I am really sorry Jane.

I don’t trust ‘people’ to make the right decisions

I do believe in kinder deaths though

JaneJudge that is truly awful. I can't get my head round that.

Neither can I
It changed neither to neuter, which is apt really.

Galaxy, yes I understand and accept your point. I don’t believe people with ld’s or black women get the same opportunities/levels if care

the worriedwell. I’m suggesting that loving families, partners with LPA which they will have discussed in detail should be able to advocate for their loved one when that person can no longer advocate for themselves. I do hope you aren’t suggesting we did anything other than that for my husband/my chikdren’s father.
I have absolute faith in my daughters. They wouldn’t be joint executors on my LPA otherwise. Yes there are some bad people. I worked with families for 40 years. The majority were good, loving people

It can't be part of end of life palliative care as it isn't legal at the moment

I didnt say it was legal! I said that assisted dying (is being looked) at as part of palliative care ...by which I meant in the context of palliative care and patient choice and control over their own end of life if their quality of life is not worth living for in the patients view.