The US Election.

Babs - spot on

Bernice Saunders, like Jeremy Corbyn would never win an election. They sit on the sidelines being Pure but will never appeal to more conservative thinkers (small c)

North of what border in the UK, Babs?

I agree on the whole with what you've said.

The throwing the toys out of the pram and going the full Emily Maitless, as some KH supporters are prone to do, that and Rory Stewart's hung dog expression, the morning after kind of demonstrates an irrational lofty attitude of "I'm so right and you're so wrong" it's so alienating, often emanating from a privileged elite and not representative of the working classes who should be the core base of a left leaning party.

Indeed. Rory Stewart, Alastair Campbell, Marina Hyde all unable to understand. Privately educated, Oxbridge, etc etc, links to the royal family, of course they dont understand.

MaizieD

North of what border in the UK, Babs?

I agree on the whole with what you've said.

Am taking about the Midlands, Lancashire, the North East etc. North of the border is simply a phrase used by people in the South but appreciate is a bit obtuse.
I was brought up in a mill town in Lancashire, and can recall when it was thriving, when most people had a job and so could live a full and purposeful life. That all changed when the primary sector collapsed and people who were once the lifeblood of this country, providing the wealth that made it great, were unceremoniously thrown on the scrap heap. Now the town I was proud to grow up in has become a place where racial riots regularly take place, where Pakistani people brought in when needed several decades ago to run the mills, are targeted by far right groups who blame them for their misfortunes.
All of this is down to massive government failures since the 1970s, not immigration.

I imagine the story of the rust belt in the US is similar.

I think North of the border means Scotland to most people, even those living in the South, so I was puzzled too. Thanks for the clarification.

However, it is still happening, West of the UK now as the last blast furnace in Port Talbot closed recently.

😂 speaking as a Southerner, albeit a long time resident of Yorkshire and places further north, I have never used or heard the term North of the border used to describe the industrial North.

The correct term is, of course, North of Watford Gap...

MaizieD

😂 speaking as a Southerner, albeit a long time resident of Yorkshire and places further north, I have never used or heard the term North of the border used to describe the industrial North.

The correct term is, of course, North of Watford Gap...

Midlanders are aghast at the thought of being termed Northerners Bab03! 😁

Midlanders are aghast at the thought of being termed Northerners Bab03! 😁

Throughout my child hood and teenage years in Essex I honestly thought that Birmingham was a Northern city.

Ha ha where I presently live near London is North, when I lived in Lancs it was South.
Apologies about North of the border remark have also heard north of the Watford gap but southerners have said that I am from north of the border, but can see the confusion.

Last remark was about the midlands.

No need to apologise, Babs, it was amusing...

I'm from "The North" - I think of North of the border as Allira does - Scotland.

I think what politicians are having difficulty in finding solutions to is how to appeal to and support a very diverse (in terms of age, education, ethnicity etc) population in a post industrial world. We are going to see even greater issues arise as we replace the labour force with technology. In the last hundred years the percentage of unskilled/skilled manual workers has halved from 80% to 40%. We haven't found a solution to that in the UK nor have they in the US.

foxie48

I think what politicians are having difficulty in finding solutions to is how to appeal to and support a very diverse (in terms of age, education, ethnicity etc) population in a post industrial world. We are going to see even greater issues arise as we replace the labour force with technology. In the last hundred years the percentage of unskilled/skilled manual workers has halved from 80% to 40%. We haven't found a solution to that in the UK nor have they in the US.

I think what politicians are having difficulty in finding solutions to is how to appeal to and support a very diverse (in terms of age, education, ethnicity etc) population in a post industrial world.

Entirely agree.

Simplistically, how do you 'placate' those at the bottom of the heap, those in the middle and those at the top (so to speak) - all at the same time?

If "the-economy-stupid" trope is true - how do you give more money to the poorest; allow the middle-class to keep what they've earned and saved; and make sure the very wealthy elite don't get taxed to the point they threaten to leave?

Under free-market Capitalism, I cannot see it's possible to reconcile these demographics.

FWIW, I think that unless we adopt the Nordic countries economic model of a mixed-economy - a combination of a fully globalised, competitive market economy together with a healthy welfare net, then we are destined forever to switch between Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

And I don't believe we have the 'mentality', as a nation, to embrace this model. Apart from anything else, we've now left our nearest trading bloc to 'got it alone', which further alienates us from this way of thinking. We're Corporate Britain, "building back better", seizing the opportunities of Brexit, etc, etc.

No version of Brexit was ever going to satisfy everyone. And I think we are doomed forever to a kind of tit-for-tat politics with the EU, whilst we attempt to negotiate with the world's largest trading blocs.

Allsorts

Trump is just nuts. I wonder if he has dementia or a personality disorder, either way he is not right.

Like Biden then, they were happy to put up with him

Fleurpepper- Donald Trump was born in New York, New York

TerriBull

I've been reading these comments by Jameela Jamil, English actress and activist and not a Trump supporter by any means, who nevertheless is of the opinion that liberals made 10,000 mistakes and outlines some of those errors that got Trump elected.

Biden should have stepped down earlier, The White House and the media shouldn't have covered up his cognitive decline.

The left and the liberals have been an increasingly alienating, hypocritical , ostracizing and punitive party for 8 years. They drove their own support away.

They didn't listen to their voters on the Middle East and have been dishonest in ways that have cost them the trust of the public and then have been found out.

Democrats mandated Covid vaccines dismantling "my body, my choice" rhetoric. They spoke down to the very people they most needed to covert at every chance over the last 8 years.

Regarding Kamala Harris, she continued. "They chose a candidate to replace Biden who missed so many opportunities to address Policy in far too many interviews and just focused on the fact that she isn't him, they turned down both K and her V.P. going on Joe Rogan arguably the most important platform on the planet to convert a demographic.

People with big platforms waited until the day of the election to endorse and encourage people to go out to the polling station.

The liberals were so sure they could beat him. To the point many endorsed a third party candidate who didn't stand a chance against a man who had a 9 year rabid fan base.

They ignored young men and boys and demonized them rather than calling them in, leaving them to be indoctrinated by the far right.

Jameela was of the opinion that race and misogyny weren't the main reason Kamala lost the election and the real cause was lack of policy.

She, JJ attests that her heart is broken and that she is angry because the left had the power and opportunity to avoid this outcome

She concludes, Perhaps those politically left of centre, can see that self cannibalizing, punitive, morally superior, condescending and hypocritical approaches have not worked,

Whether you agree with her observations or not, I think she has hit the nail on the head in some of her perceptions in how the Democrats have possibly alienated those who could have been their potential voters.

💯 agree

PeggyT

Tonight, my son and daughter-in-law had to take my 10 y/o granddaughter to eat after gymnastics to discuss something that upset her at school about the election outcome. When, how, and why does a 10 y/o have such a traumatic response to an election??

That’s a bit dramatic

had to take my 10 y/o granddaughter to eat after gymnastics to discuss something that upset her at school

Just wondering why this can't be discussed at home?
I found this a bit confusing.
Sorry if I've missed something...

PeggyT

If a 10 year old has a traumatic response to an election result I would say that can only point to a certain amount of brainwashing, presumably by the parents and or school teachers, that should never be imposed on someone so young. Shame on them.

J52

Norah
“I mean that their tariffs will be fine for us. We may find USA goods prices to go further up - prices aren't static. We'll be fine.”

Are you an Economist? Would you care to share your expert knowledge?

My opinion - we don't need to fret their financials. Serves no purpose.

Norah

J52

Norah
“I mean that their tariffs will be fine for us. We may find USA goods prices to go further up - prices aren't static. We'll be fine.”

Are you an Economist? Would you care to share your expert knowledge?

My opinion - we don't need to fret their financials. Serves no purpose.

I think we do need to 'fret their financials' as they will have a direct adverse effect on us, and on every country that exports to the US if Trump imposes tariffs as he has been saying that he will.

Indeed, as he did to 'punish' countries that annoyed him during his last stint as president.

Mt61

Fleurpepper- Donald Trump was born in New York, New York

We all know that.I was talking about Musk. He was born in South Africa, emigrated to Canada, and went to the USA on a student visa. How he became a US citizen is a mistery he refuses to discuss- but he was definitely an illegal immigrant, and so was his brother. Probably large sums of money were paid- but illegal he was.

' But immigration experts who spoke with CNN said the way Elon Musk responded when the issue was brought up publicly in 2013 suggests another possibility.

“Actually, there are no gray areas in immigration,” says Charles Kuck, an Atlanta immigration attorney. Instead, Kuck says, there are people who get caught for violations, and people who don’t.

Jennifer Minear, an immigration attorney who focuses on employment issues, points out that given that Musk is now a US citizen, “obviously he did something to regularize his status.”

“But that doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a period of time that he was without (legal) status. … It sounds like there was a little bit of wonkiness in his past with immigration,” says Minear, a past president of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. '

And Melania and her family certainly are not USA citizens- well, were not until Trump broke all the rules to give them legal status.