J D Vance Munich address today.

Here is a fun fact for those who think Trumps immigration plan is the greatest of all time.

A portion of them are being released after being arrested. Back I to the same communities they were picked up in.

It is called Catch and Release.

www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/people-caught-trump-immigration-crackdown-released-us-rcna186360

www.thenational.scot/news/24937742.scottish-campaigners-respond-jd-vances-buffer-zone-lie

This is from the National.
In a speech in Munich, Vance argued that Europe was shifting away from democratic values and claimed the “basic liberties of religious Britons, in particular” are under threat, as he used the Scottish Government’s law as an example.
He should at least get his facts right.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I think British and European politicians have betrayed the whole continent. I doubt any will be held accountable for the scale of the damage they’ve caused but there’s just a glimmer of hope that people will wake up and stop voting for these rotten liberals. Thank you to JDV for telling them they’re on notice.

So do I.

Sago

Chocolatelovinggran

I understand that you love Mr Vance's stance on immigration and free speech.
How are you with his opposition to all forms of abortion including the morning after pill, even following rape, and his plans to limit availability to contraception?

I do not agree with Vance re abortion just as I do not agree with Farage, Badenoch or Starmer on everything.

I just loved the key point, the elephant in the room or as he put it “ the enemy from within”.

There are many of us out here who feel exactly as I do and I believe we are welcoming our enemies, feeding, educating, homing and clothing them.

Then people act surprised when they turn against us.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

👏👏👏👏

MaizieD

woodenspoon

It’s not stirring the pot. It’s called having an alternative point of view and being allowed to air it. That’s freedom of speech.

Is it like this 'freedom of speech'?

Pentagon school libraries closed so that the thought police freedom of speech lovers can weed out books containing banned words and ideas.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/13/pentagon-schools-closed-libraries-trump

I don't know how you lot manage to live with the hypocrisy

The guardian again….. sigh

jop.blogs.uni-hamburg.de/what-dictators-communicate-in-their-speeches-and-why-we-should-pay-attention/

Marydoll

www.thenational.scot/news/24937742.scottish-campaigners-respond-jd-vances-buffer-zone-lie

This is from the National.
In a speech in Munich, Vance argued that Europe was shifting away from democratic values and claimed the “basic liberties of religious Britons, in particular” are under threat, as he used the Scottish Government’s law as an example.
He should at least get his facts right.

A complete lie that people could not pray in their own homes in a buffer zone around abortion clinics. Just totally fabricated. I mean who would police that? Are specially trained anti-basic-liberties police raiding people’s homes to see if they are praying.
The simple fact is that the Trump administration knows precious little about Europe and the UK, which is made patently obvious whenever they open their mouths.
Perhaps they know just as little about the US, which wouldn’t surprise me.

BevSec

MaizieD

woodenspoon

It’s not stirring the pot. It’s called having an alternative point of view and being allowed to air it. That’s freedom of speech.

Is it like this 'freedom of speech'?

Pentagon school libraries closed so that the thought police freedom of speech lovers can weed out books containing banned words and ideas.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/13/pentagon-schools-closed-libraries-trump

I don't know how you lot manage to live with the hypocrisy

The guardian again….. sigh

Do you have a problem with the truth being reported, Bev Sec?

Try this:
www.military.com/daily-news/2025/02/12/schools-military-kids-ban-books-and-lessons-run-afoul-of-trump-orders.html

Or this:
www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/02/07/defense-department-hegseth-books-schools/

Or this:

taskandpurpose.com/news/department-of-defense-schools-pulled-lessons/

Or this:

citizenfreepress.com/breaking/pentagon-schools-close-libraries-to-remove-inappropriate-books/

Loads of variations of the same story... and lots more reports of it if you care to do a quick search.

@Bevsec

This is widely reported by many news outlets, not just the independent -

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/utah-pride-flag-ban-schools-government-property-b2698466.html

You see this is the flip side to the brave new world Trump/Vance are promoting, a world where diversity is taboo but Nazi and confederate flags are ok.
I take it those supporting Trump/Vance also support this. After all you can’t just cherry pick, this is very much a part of the whole Trump/Vance/Musk circus.

He wore his igorance like he recently wore a stars and stripes handkerchief in his pocket which is apparently a sign of disrespcting the flag he so strongly purports to love.

He claimed Europe has a free speech issue whilst supporting Putin??? Come on people, we Europeans aren't so stupid as to fall for this claptrap.

The US as we knew it is finished... you can keep your chlorinated chicken and your cheap burger bars.

Does the US not realise they are still the young 'uns on the world scene? Only just over 250 years old and falling like a lemmings off a cliff. The great experiment is over folks...

LizzieDrip
In 2023, the United States was the largest partner for EU exports of goods (19.7 %) and the second largest partner for EU imports of goods (13.7 %).
Among EU Member States, the Netherlands was the largest importer of goods from the United States and Germany was the largest exporter of goods to the United States in 2023. Your suggestion is basically what Trump wants, he wants Europe to stop relying on the US for defence and want them to start paying their own way.

Dorrain

LizzieDrip
In 2023, the United States was the largest partner for EU exports of goods (19.7 %) and the second largest partner for EU imports of goods (13.7 %).
Among EU Member States, the Netherlands was the largest importer of goods from the United States and Germany was the largest exporter of goods to the United States in 2023. Your suggestion is basically what Trump wants, he wants Europe to stop relying on the US for defence and want them to start paying their own way.

Does that apply to Israel?
As far as I know the US pays more to Israel than all other countries combined as well as supplying state of the art weaponry.
And if the US wants to stop funding Europe/UK defence will it remove all its bases pronto? And stop dragging European countries/the UK into its illegal wars abroad?

And Mr Trump has banned a certain news outlet from briefings because they continue to refer to The Gulf of Mexico.
And I really don't like, and do not use the phrase " wake up and smell the coffee" because I see the implication as " I am an intelligent informed individual and you are not" which is, in itself, ill informed, as no one knows the poster.

American Isolationism. Remember that? America will throw Europe under the bus quite happily and has demonstrated it before. Whatever ills you think there are in Europe, believe me Trump, Vance and Musk are not the answer.

The idea that there has been no problem with free speech in the UK alone is ridiculous. The fact that the right do it too doesnt negate the issues that have been happening in the last few years. But I am delighted to see that people are now supporting the free speech ideal.

I sincerely hope the tide is turning. We have fools running the country and encouraging the fools in the country to carrying on voting for them.

I wonder if Vance could give three examples of how he things the basic liberties of religious Britons aren't being eroded.

I wonder if Vance thinks Britain is as religion driven as America?

His speech was aimed for for his home market. A willy waving exercise to show the American public that he 'owned' Europe.

Sorry.

I wonder if Vance could give three examples of how he thinks the basic liberties of religious Britons are being eroded.

Perhaps Mr Vance’s time might be better spent considering his own country’s vile gun laws:

In 2021 (the last year for which data is available) 20,958 people were murdered by guns in the USA.

Even more were injured and used guns to commit suicide.

Stop worrying about our free speech, Mr Vance, and think about your own people shooting each other - that’s your ‘enemy from within’!

How would you campaign against the gun laws if you didnt have freedom of speech.

I agree with LizzieDrip. Trump and Vance need to get "their own house in order" before criticising other countries. There is quite a lot wrong with the USA that they should be putting right.
I find the American way of life quite alien to that of Europeans and don't want to be lectured to by Trump or Vance.

Freedom of speech doesn’t exist, Chomsky has spoken at length about this but will not bore anyone here with the whole thing, will just give the gist. Freedom of speech means people are not only allowed to speak about increasing immigration- though in all honesty I have never witnessed anyone being unable to talk about this, I think the issue is when others don’t like what they are saying because it borders on racism - it also means that people are allowed to air extremist opinions that can lead others to commit violence. Fact is would those who want freedom of speech be happy with Islamic extremists speaking publicly, grooming those who then go on to commit terrible crimes, or be happy with the KKK holding forth about black people and Jewish people, inciting terrible crimes.
Freedom of speech cannot exist, that is why there are laws against inciting hatred and violence in every civilised country.
We have freedom of expression, that is the difference here. We never had or will have freedom of speech. And countries that do not have freedom of expression are countries like Iran where comments on here would be strictly policed and individuals investigated . Nobody on here suffers this so I don’t think we need this constant hand wringing about not being able to say something.

What is so amazing, is that it it now the very people who have been shouting 'Sovereignty', when buying part of a fully elected group, with many representatives at the top table making joint decisions- who are now saying 'with Trump all the way'.

It is just unbelievable.

Casdon

Sago

Casdon

He demonstrated a frighteningly low understanding of the dynamics of world politics, and promoted a right wing, USA-centric view of the world. If that’s your thing, you’d like him.

I’m oh dear, that didn’t take long!

Post trash and you get trash back Sago. You know how it works!

Oh yes. Sovereignty, they shouted and screamed and now!?!

I just can’t understand why so many people don’t see how Trump etc al are using immigrants ( not to mention trans people and a few others) in the same way that the Nazis used the Jews prior to WWII.