Zelensky - is Trump ousting him out to make way for a Putin choice?

On the BBC news today they were saying that European nations feel a great sense of betrayal with the way Trump is cosying up to Russia. I know what they mean. I feel it too.

We may not have the 'stomach for a war' with Russia, but then neither did Ukraine. Russia gave them no choice. What choice will an emboldened Putin give to our allies bordering Russia?

And so much depends on the results of the election in Germany this week-end.

Cossy

I think this is Putin’s plan, greedy Trump just wants 50% of the minerals etc from the land.

Just like he wants ALL of Gaza.

B****r the citizens of these countries.

Trump, Musk, Putin and Netanyahu
don’t care about their people, they care about power, money and themselves.

Frankly, they are no better than the terrorists they decry.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of Trump. I am sure you are right in saying that Trump wants Ukraine's minerals, but if that was all he wanted, he would do better to back Ukraine than Russia.

To me, it has always looked as if Trump wants to go down in history, as the man who ended the war that was ruining the Western World's economy - he does not care whose country Ukraine is now, or will be after a peace is brokered. If peace can be attained by selling Ukraine to Russia and either seeing Zelinsky shot or imprisioned by Putin, then Trump will contenance both moves, just as long as he comes out covered with glory in the eyes of his supporters back home.

He has clearly shown us that he doesn't care a hoot for Europe, Britain or the Commonwealth countries. Whether he is fool enough to believe that if he lets Putin take Ukraine, then Putin will back Trump when Trump annexes Panama, and tries to annexe Canada, and Greenland, I do not know.

As to Gaza - dream on, Mr. Trump. No-one in the Middle East or out of it is going to let you have it!

No Muslim state wants an American protectorate in Gaza, and if King Abudullah II of Jordan resembles his father at all, which I have always thought he does, he and his diplomats will be working very hard right now to thwart Trump.

The great difficultly with Trump is knowing what he means seriously, and what he just says off the top of his head and later is forced to realise just is not ever going to happen.

One of the great dangers is that Trump believes he can dictate to NATO and as Putin does not want Ukraine joining NATO, Trump will probably promise him that that will never happen, if indeed, he has not already done so. It was stated last week that Putin will dicuss Ukraine joining the EU, but not NATO. If this is true, where did that idea come from - the pretext for Putin's "military exercise" was Ukraine negotiating with EU for entry.

Putin and Trump may have short memories, but the rest of us can think back to 2022 quite well.

Caro41

Trump’s attitude towards Ukraine is all part of a much wider agenda. He wants to drive a wedge between China and Russia by appeasing, in fact positively cosying up to , Russia . The whole world order is changing and a China, Russia and , possibly, India power block could be the prospect for the future.

True, Trump is wary of China. The sanctions have pushed Russia closer to China and if the war is escalated China could easily start supplying Russia openly.
Secondly if the US gets bogged down in Ukraine, China could move against Taiwan that would cause a big problem.

If those 2 scenarios are taken into account he is being advised to settle Ukraine at any price, that may be what’s happening.

Trump should be kept well away from peace talks. Putin doesn't mind Trump being present because he knows he can exploit him. In Ukraine's case Trump only wants their minerals, for Trump profit is what matters. Same reason Trump is interested in Canada.

Why would Trump act against Putin when he wants to act in a similar, if not same way? Ie: invade a country which is not his
Everyone should have been aware of this.

I am in shock. I was brought up to believe in the great Democracy of the USA. I now see that old man trump wants to change everything.
The USA is now a friend of Russia and I say
The friend of my enemy is my enemy.

Boycott the usa. Do not visit and support their economy.

Cossy

I think this is Putin’s plan, greedy Trump just wants 50% of the minerals etc from the land.

Just like he wants ALL of Gaza.

B****r the citizens of these countries.

Trump, Musk, Putin and Netanyahu
don’t care about their people, they care about power, money and themselves.

Frankly, they are no better than the terrorists they decry.

Cruel Criminals ..

Agree with you 100% ..

"Frankly, they are NO better than the Terrorists they decry.

Cossy

foxie48

Nope I don't think that was the plan. Putin invaded in 2014 and got no push back keeping the territory he'd gained. He decided to try his luck again and I doubt anyone thought that Zelensky would become the inspirational leader that he is. So what Putin thought would be a pushover has turned into a real slog.
Trump is trying to get his hands on Ukraine's rare minerals. If he did cut a deal ( which I doubt) and managed to end the war, I wonder how happy he'd be to let Putin invade again or have a Putin puppet as president. There's still billions of dollars worth of resources in unoccupied Ukraine that would fuel US tech industries etc for many years.

But they belong to Ukraine and their people, why should Trump or Putin have ANY of it for free?

Obvious to those of us who are reasonable mortals of sound mind! Sadly we are not dealing with reasonable mortsls of sound mind. We are dealing with power hungry megalomaniacs, with no concern for anyone but themselves!

A measured view from the ‘i’ newspaper this afternoon:

“ Good afternoon,

The received narrative is that Donald Trump has committed a great betrayal of Ukraine - by seeking a settlement with Vladimir Putin which Vlodomyr Zelensky is not involved in. Were it not for the US’s selfishness, Ukraine could have won the war.

Nonsense, says Patrick Cockburn. Europe has been juvenile in its thinking and approach to date. The historical importance of Ukraine to Russia goes back centuries - Russia was never going to let it be part of Nato. When Ukraine was at peak strength in the war two years ago, attempts at a diplomatic solution were mistakenly slapped down by the Biden administration:

“Somehow the Russian army was so strong that it threatened central Europe just like the old Red Army at the height of the Cold War. But at the same time, it was so weak that Ukraine could have as a war aim the recapture of Crimea and the Donbas through a military victory.

“Jibes about Trump being hoodwinked by the evil demon Putin are juvenile. So too is the offer by Sir Keir Starmer to send British troops to Ukraine, so long as they have guaranteed American military backing. This was described by one expert on Russia as “la-la land”, since Russia says it will not accept Nato troops in Ukraine and the US is determined not to be dragged into a military conflict there.

“Much better than perpetually sneering at Trump would be for European leaders to emerge from one of their incessant conferences with an achievable peace plan of their own.”

wibblywobblywobblebottom

Trump should be kept well away from peace talks. Putin doesn't mind Trump being present because he knows he can exploit him. In Ukraine's case Trump only wants their minerals, for Trump profit is what matters. Same reason Trump is interested in Canada.

Yes Trump wants profit/income to tun the country their borrowings are even higher than UK at 125% of GDP, they get away with it because the Dollar is so strong and not sensitive to exchange rates. He wants to reduce borrowing not spend on wars that cannot be won.

Nobody is joking about Trump being hoodwinked by Putin. It is too serious for jokes. If Ukraine had kept their nuclear weapons instead of disarming, on the promise of being kept safe by the USA and yes, Russia, then Putin would not have invaded.

But I do agree with you that a united Europe needs to make their own plan, and soon. Probs waiting for the outcome of the German elections this weekend.

Wonder how the Armaments Industry in the States feels about the USA drying up a valuable market for them?

Maremia

Wonder how the Armaments Industry in the States feels about the USA drying up a valuable market for them?

They are probably just waiting for Netanyahu to find a "reason" to cancel the precarious cease fire.

In the early sixties I read a small book on weather for the layman, in which the author, A.G. Forsdyke, a British meteorologist who had worked for the Navy durinbg WW2, reported that Britain, the USA and Russia were meeting to discuss methods by which the ice of the Bering Straits and the Arctic could be melted, to enable the colder areas of the USA and Siberia to be warmed, thus accessing the minerals and land of the area. Among the methods Forsdyke mentioned was nuclear power. In the early years of internet, I looked up all this, and there were British, USA and Russians all in uniform after one of these meetings, all so-called allies at the time. Up in the area of the Arctic there are apparently vast buildings and nuclear installations, now deserted. So they did it, and Trump has access to all the documents outlining these activities. No wonder he doesn't want to bother with rules and regulations to inhibit global warming! I don't think the British were finally involved, but perhaps someone else here knows more about this. This was a gross criminal act, and the USA and Russia should be made to invest in any possible methods to reverse the damage they have done to our planet with their greed and evil actions. Now we see that the USA was always out to grab Greenland; what do they care about the people there? If they can they will grab Ukraine, and anywhere else they consider worthwhile materially. Can one hope for universal justice? I pray so.

Patrick Cockburn didn't think that Russia would invade Ukraine! That was from an article in the 'i' just before it happened.

In a word yes! They want to carve up Ukraine between them! As for Musk thinking he's a 3000 year old time traveller wanting to get home👽👽🤡 Please someone show him the way! As for Vance and his misinformation re Scotland!They are all deranged and dangerous....

As for Musk thinking he's a 3000 year old time traveller wanting to get home 👽👽🤡

What?! I haven't heard that one! 🤣🤣🤣

Anyone remember this song?
"The Lunatics Have Taken Over the Asylum" is the name of a song by the British band Fun Boy Three. The song was released in 1981.

Well, the stuff coming from Chump & 'JD Vance' (WHY did he change his name?!) is vomit-worthy.

Agent Orange (his new code name in Moscow) talks about democracy, and lack of elections, some statement, given that Putin only holds sham ones AND readily bumps off any vaguely credible opponents.

I see that AO also referred to Ukraine STARTING the war, quite bizarre as most of the world saw the Russian tank lines lined up in Belarus and then when they invaded? Perhaps Donny was busy with a later version of the, um, 'exotic dancer' that he denied meeting, or possibly was trying a further book as a distraction (the crayons are a bit fiddly though).

Old man trump says many things. Dont laugh because he means everything he says.

oh mae13 I would love to see that carton. come back spitting image, how we miss you all.

On a serious note, just look back and you see how Trump is following the same pattern as Hitler, and has about the same thought for anyone else but himself. Trump thinks he only has to say he wants something and he should get it. Give me your country etc etc. How any self respecting person could actually have voted for him I do not know. The thought that he has any control over anything is enough to scare the daylights out of you. No wonder he wants to keep in with Putin as the greedy little dollar signs light up in his eyes when he thinks what else he can steal. God help us all with these maniacs at large .

Trump thinks he only has to say he wants something and he should get it.
For ever the spoilt child he apparently was.