Is there an argument for saying that UK citizens who support Trump are unpatriotic?

Politicsnerd, you could say that about any country. Even so-called friendly nations will necessarily put their own interests first.

Are you aware that your own perspective is left wing? Some in this country might call that unpatriotic.

We all have to be well informed and objective. There is no making a proper judgement without an in depth perspective and Trump’s tactics are to surprise and obfuscate so it is not always clear at first what he is after. It doesn’t do to respond to his dog whistle.

It’s also a little rash and unjust to be labelling others in a generic way.

GrannyGravy13

Unless someone is actively supporting and campaigning for a leader of another nation who is actively at war with the U.K. of course it isn’t unpatriotic.

Over the years I have admired leaders of other nations, just as I have despaired about others.

I am extremely patriotic, adore my country of birth (UK) more so since living abroad.

I find it hard to understand why some people (yes I know, but am not sure how else to phrase it) accuse those who have voted differently to them or admire policies and indeed the ethos of another party are treated with disdain and on many occasions on GN called idiots, uneducated or on several threads suggesting a test in order to assess one’s capacity to vote…

You speak so well. Thankyou.

trump watched old movies
drstrange seems tobe the main one

nanna8

No. I think supporting Starmer is unpatriotic though.

Give the poor beggar a chance. He has to try to fix 13 years of excessive borrowing, lying about the black hole we are in. We have NO money but are still supporting the EU black hole because of a Boris negotiated exit agreement!.
I have a pension and am paying less for my fuel than I did last year and the year before - the winter fuel allowance paid for out of excess VAT income which is no longer there as fuel prices drop. Why should I get help just because I am old??

People spent years talking about benefit scroungers, and when he tries to tighten up on slack and arbitrary processes he is being mean to the poor. He cannot win with fickle folks

PoliticsNerd

It's okay folks, calm down. I think we all know now that posting has to fit into a tiny little cliche on this forum. There are definitely pleasanter places to be.

It's a chat forum.

Perhaps the question would be better posed on a forum designed for political debate.

I forgot, it wasn't a question! Or is it?

Trump & JD have the sort of patriotic policies that we in the UK wish this present and previous traitorous lot would have enacted. We support Trump for that reason.
From the last failed Tory crowd to the present Labour unprecedented attacks on pensioners; WASPI women; the Disabled; overburdening the Education system to the point of collapse; prioritising cultures and beliefs from other lands over those of our indigenous peoples; directing the NHS to cut waiting lists by any means, fair or foul; spending £Billions on aid and loans to support the 'net-zero' fiasco, both at home and abroad - whilst our power costs are the highest in the world; legislatively increased employment costs that have caused thousands of job losses; the housing sector cannot even keep up with the needs of UK citizens, never mind the taxpayer fully-funded encouragement (from funding the French coastguard through the laughably named Border Force > waiting coaches, to free hotels, entertainment, meals & spends) system to import even more immigrants; and the cost of just existing, spiralls out of control.
And what about a WOKE public sector system that allows employees to work, via the internet, from some holiday destination called 'working from home'?

Freya5

GrannyGravy13

Unless someone is actively supporting and campaigning for a leader of another nation who is actively at war with the U.K. of course it isn’t unpatriotic.

Over the years I have admired leaders of other nations, just as I have despaired about others.

I am extremely patriotic, adore my country of birth (UK) more so since living abroad.

I find it hard to understand why some people (yes I know, but am not sure how else to phrase it) accuse those who have voted differently to them or admire policies and indeed the ethos of another party are treated with disdain and on many occasions on GN called idiots, uneducated or on several threads suggesting a test in order to assess one’s capacity to vote…

You speak so well. Thankyou.

Well said GrannyGravy13

GrannyGravy13

Unless someone is actively supporting and campaigning for a leader of another nation who is actively at war with the U.K. of course it isn’t unpatriotic.

Over the years I have admired leaders of other nations, just as I have despaired about others.

I am extremely patriotic, adore my country of birth (UK) more so since living abroad.

I find it hard to understand why some people (yes I know, but am not sure how else to phrase it) accuse those who have voted differently to them or admire policies and indeed the ethos of another party are treated with disdain and on many occasions on GN called idiots, uneducated or on several threads suggesting a test in order to assess one’s capacity to vote . . .

Very well put.

I NEVER EVER thought I could see any of Trump's point of view BUT:
- the US is experiencing financial problems the same as the rest of the world, so what makes it their responsibility to subsidise us?
- Cheap imports the expense of home grown hurts them (and us) in both quality and financial terms.
- Illegal immigrants have jumped the queue for right to be there over legitimate applications, they fuel a black economy, undercut wages, & pay no tax. While a broad brush solution is not the answer, something did need to be done to stem the tide.
- why should it be up to him (or us) to spend vast resources providing security to the rest of the warring world? Just because they have done so up until now does not mean it is their responsibility to get involved in long drawn out wars

I go support Trump and will continue to do so . This man stands by what he promised his people unlike our leader .

Well said, FranP, I agree with every word.

Whatever our views we look down from different hilltops, be our differences upbringing, circumstances, experiences, education and knowledge or lack of, religions, loyalties , gullibility etc.. Our hilltops may change as we go on too.

Thankfully there are usually enough things we find we have in common with others to understand them or if not then to at least find common ground with even if we don't always agree.
We have to survive so we have to know we are sharing thi world and it isn't ours alone to do what we want with or just take of it what we want for ourselves.

For Pantglas, you're getting confused - like half of the American nation between Socialism and Communism.

I'm not a Labour supporter (nor any party, how much incompetence do you need to see for evidence?) - but as your "admiration for all things Communist" would include Stalin and Mao bumping off well over 100 million combined of their own citizens, and the former Iron Curtain, and present-day N Korea being so proud of their Utopian society they need to keep their people locked in by armed guards and high fences, I'm not totally sure if the likes of Momentum would agree with you?

Several European countries run what is essentially 'Democratic Socialism' with a great standard of living, and a healthy safety-net for those disabled, or down on their luck, maybe you should go and look at them?

For the OP, if you don't want opinions, why ask?

I'd guess some folk could admire Chump, and would still count themselves as 'patriotic', if you count them as being unpatriotic, you'd have to include quite a few countries when their policies affect us badly (eg France, and their waving dinghies full of immigrants over to us?).

The evidence suggests that most people here think Chump is a demented fruitcake, fair enough given the ten years or so of evidence since he emerged with political ambitions that he's a sexist, racist fraud, liar and thin-skinned bully with an Emperor complex. Even Forbes aren't sure if he's been bankrupt 4 or 5 times, and for those folk admiring his present wealth, I think that inheriting $200mill+ from daddy is probably quite a help?

Trade experts all round the planet are quite convinced that his Tariffs plan will mostly affect his own people, though at present his fans are buying into the premise that countries send USA a cheque every week with the surcharge amounts, as opposed to the reality that American stores just up their prices and pass the 'tariffs' on to American citizens.

If anyone is still a supporter, they should just look at his ideas re taking over Canada and Greenland (t would actually make MORE sense if USA was run by one of them, not the other way round!).

I suspect you’ve misunderstood my post DrWatson.

Like you I have no political leanings and certainly no admiration for the far right/fascism or far left/communism. My reference was to the Labour Party historic flirtation with the latter.

Regarding certain European countries with Democratic Socialism governments with policies for those down on their luck - would those include the ones now introducing restrictions on immigrants?

DrWatson

For the OP, if you don't want opinions, why ask?

I'd guess some folk could admire Chump, and would still count themselves as 'patriotic', if you count them as being unpatriotic, you'd have to include quite a few countries when their policies affect us badly (eg France, and their waving dinghies full of immigrants over to us?).

The evidence suggests that most people here think Chump is a demented fruitcake, fair enough given the ten years or so of evidence since he emerged with political ambitions that he's a sexist, racist fraud, liar and thin-skinned bully with an Emperor complex. Even Forbes aren't sure if he's been bankrupt 4 or 5 times, and for those folk admiring his present wealth, I think that inheriting $200mill+ from daddy is probably quite a help?

Trade experts all round the planet are quite convinced that his Tariffs plan will mostly affect his own people, though at present his fans are buying into the premise that countries send USA a cheque every week with the surcharge amounts, as opposed to the reality that American stores just up their prices and pass the 'tariffs' on to American citizens.

If anyone is still a supporter, they should just look at his ideas re taking over Canada and Greenland (t would actually make MORE sense if USA was run by one of them, not the other way round!).

😁👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Nice to see you posting again Yvonne 🤗
I have been in Ibiza for a week and coming home today not looking forward to arriving in UK at 12:30 am and then a two hour drive home but it is what it is as they say 😂

Shinamae

Nice to see you posting again Yvonne 🤗
I have been in Ibiza for a week and coming home today not looking forward to arriving in UK at 12:30 am and then a two hour drive home but it is what it is as they say 😂

That was obviously meant to be a p.m. 😬

😁 Lucky you didn’t say more then Shinamae

Oreo

😁 Lucky you didn’t say more then Shinamae

Yeah I really hope that never happens to me. I once put a comment on the wrong work thread that was only meant for certain ears, it took me ages to recover from that one

No more than if US citizens criticised Keir Starmer? Silly premise.

FranP - I don't think this:

Illegal immigrants have jumped the queue for right to be there over legitimate applications, they fuel a black economy, undercut wages, & pay no tax.

is actually quite true.
They DO pay taxes on the whole.

Most do work and do earn an income. They are required to pay federal, state, and local income taxes on their earnings. They often have to pay federal and state payroll taxes (including Social Security and Medicare taxes) - these are withheld from their wages so not negotiable.

Even though they may be paying taxes, they are generally not eligible for any benefits such as Social Security and Medicare. They pay a lot into this fund and are almost always not eligible to take from it.

Aside from this, sales taxes are inescapable on goods and services they purchase.

If they are lucky enough to own property, they are also responsible for paying property taxes.

The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) provides them with an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)
Everyone with an ITIN who has earned income have to file federal income tax returns. They may also need to file state and local income tax returns depending on where they live.

Suppose employers hire undocumented workers - they are still obligated to withhold the federal and state income taxes and the employee's share of payroll taxes if the worker provides a ITIN.
I may be wrong but think they need an ITIN if they don't have an SS number.

Cash in hand is obviously another matter but as loads do seem to work in jobs for companies they are paying taxes.

Can an “illegal” migrant in the US get official documentation and social security, at what stage do they become officially “legal”?.

Don't believe they get a SS number but they often have an ITIN