Can Starmer survive? The wolves are circling in the Labour Party.

Primrose53

Breaking News

Labour Councillor Mason Humberstone has defected to Reform.

Who?

I think any standing MP or Councillor who defects to another party should stand down and face the ballot box again in a by-election

Allira

I think any standing MP or Councillor who defects to another party should stand down and face the ballot box again in a by-election

Definitely I have been banging on about this for years!

Love the name, though!

It sounds like a Dickens character 🙂

GrannyGravy13

Allira

I think any standing MP or Councillor who defects to another party should stand down and face the ballot box again in a by-election

Definitely I have been banging on about this for years!

I agree. I think much less of anybody who puts themselves first, before the people who voted for them. The rules should be changed to automatically trigger a by election.

I’m another who believes any mp or councillor should defects should face by election

Yes, it's only fair to the folk who voted them in. I think there might actually be a vid of Farage saying that.

The law in this country sees MPs and councillors as people who are elected to Parliament/Councils on their own merits. They may well be members of specific political parties and people may vote for them because they support a particular party, but they are voted for on a personal basis.

You are the honourable member of Parliament for the constituency of Barchester. Not the Honourable Conservative member for the constituency of Barchester.

To change that would mean changing part of our constitution.

MOnica, legally no doubt you are correct.
I voted for our current MP.because I wanted a Labour government. I liked and trusted her, that’s increased as I see how active she is in the constituency and Westminster. If she abandoned the beliefs she set out during the election campaign and went over to Reform I would want the opportunity to vote her out

Even if she continued to be a good constituency MP?

Yes because she wouldn’t be supporting the policies I voted for.
I chose Reform because their policies and beliefs are so far from mine and the ones she talked about during the process in which she won as our CLP candidate

If she abandoned the LP and represented us as an independent on balance I do feel her constituents should get the opportunity to have an alternative Labour candidate or her as an independent

I think there will be more leakage from the two main parties into Reform over the next few years.

I can’t ever imagine a LibDems MP moving to Reform.

I don’t think many Labour MPs would go over to Reform, their principles are totally opposite. I can see Labour defections to the Lib Dems though if things don’t improve.

Principles can often go out the window when an MP sees his job vanishing especially in those red wall seats.

We will see, but I can’t see it. Selling your principles down the river for a job is a pretty low thing to do.

M0nica

The law in this country sees MPs and councillors as people who are elected to Parliament/Councils on their own merits. They may well be members of specific political parties and people may vote for them because they support a particular party, but they are voted for on a personal basis.

You are the honourable member of Parliament for the constituency of Barchester. Not the Honourable Conservative member for the constituency of Barchester.

To change that would mean changing part of our constitution.

Nevertheless a large section of voters vote for a party not the candidate personally, the leader of that party has a big influence on voters.

Even at local level there are few independants and those that are have usually previously been party councilors and built a personal following, we had one, first Tory then LD, finally independant.

Casdon

We will see, but I can’t see it. Selling your principles down the river for a job is a pretty low thing to do.

It would be sold as
"Doing it for my family", "such and such party is finished", "doing it in the national interest", etc
Some people are capable of coming up with no end of reasons or excuses for doing anything whatsoever. And many will fall for it.

David49
Nevertheless a large section of voters vote for a party not the candidate personally, the leader of that party has a big influence on voters.

I’d agree with that.

Those who come to the door pre voting day usually ask Will you be voting X party? not the candidate’s name.

Outside the polling centres we are often asked how we voted, not who we voted for.

For Maizie, your "Starmer may be a decent and honourable man with good intentions. One could forgive him being less than charismatic if he were competent and represented core Labour values. But he isn't. I'm in favour of Andy Burnham" was perfect until you got to AB! Starmer was hopeless at the CPS (ask any lawyer and/or police from that era), and those who recalled his incompetence had little faith that he'd be any good as a Labour leader. His huge election win was fuelled by massive help from Bojo and the ludicrous Truss woman, who've made Tories unelectable for years.

Burnham got featured on a recent Newsnight, when the panel lampooned his constantly changing stance on assorted policy topics, ("like trying to nail jelly") and his answer to a question along the lines of "Will you see out your term as Mayor?" . . . which amounted to "well, I may or may not, I'll see how the wind blows, and which direction it is".

Somewhere in the Labour Party there is doubtless a charismatic and competent leader, clearly none of KS, Reeves or Rayner! David Lammy is well up in their hierarchy these days, another hopeless case, I remember him appearing on the BBC 'This Week' show (hosted by Andrew Neil, often featured Portillo and the excellent Alan Johnson), and he used to get reduced almost to tears, a tongue-tied mess, as they unravelled and exposed his errors re Labour policy. Even Diane Abbott used to look more competent than Lammy!!

They say we get the politicos we deserve --- a lot of this country must have been very naughty.

They say we get the politicos we deserve --- a lot of this country must have been very naughty

God knows what that says about us if we end up with Farage in No 10. Can’t think of anything bad enough to deserve that!

LizzieDrip

^They say we get the politicos we deserve --- a lot of this country must have been very naughty^

God knows what that says about us if we end up with Farage in No 10. Can’t think of anything bad enough to deserve that!

I actually agree with that.
But if we do end up with Farage in No 10, which party or which leader will bear the blame on GN?

It will be Starmer who gets the blame, of course, but I'd go back to Cameron who idiotically gave Farage his opportunity to become centre stage with the EU referendum. And who also presided over a government which caused economic hardship for a very significant number of voters, which Farage was able to exploit in his anti EU propaganda.

What would be really,really good is if Starmer actually listens to his critics and changes. At least a bit. I don’t think he is a bad man, just not a good PM. The alternatives aren’t crash hot and maybe he needs to drop a few hints that way. I really couldn’t think of anyone at all right at this moment who would be able to replace him. Farage is just too much of an unknown quantity though he sounds good and says all the ‘right’ things to his audiences.

I think there is a good chance, as things look at the moment, that Remand may get the largest number of seats but a coalition of Labour plus either the LibDems and/or Greens may trump them. No democratic would want the extremists.

We will have had time to see more of the dissolution of American democracy under the far-right and that might help keep numbers down for our very own Divine Republic.