Manchester Synagogue Attack

Our Muslim communities are as deserving as our Jewish ones: both are protected and to a certain extend resourced by the government.

the far right of course has - apparently - done an about turn on their attitude to those in the Jewish Community.

I don't believe many of them for a minute.

An image of hope, and the peace talks are continuing in Egypt, so maybe soon.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202510/medium-dp0xin-unknown-1.jpeg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202510/medium-f12kb1-unknown.jpeg

Interfaith at work

Wyllow3

Our Muslim communities are as deserving as our Jewish ones: both are protected and to a certain extend resourced by the government.

the far right of course has - apparently - done an about turn on their attitude to those in the Jewish Community.

I don't believe many of them for a minute.

Of course they are.

But it wasn’t relevant to talk about previous attacks on mosques when reporting on a fatal attack on a synagogue.
It added nothing to the news that was coming in

So why? The unconscious is more revealing than the overt.

Lathyrus I didn't hear the comment and I have no idea why it was said. It was insensitive to say it at the time. Nevertheless, it is part of a narrative which is becoming increasingly intolerant towards "others", which includes Jews. Is that what you meant by "children of the lesser god"? There are actually quite a number of different children.

The two murders in Manchester were tragic and unnecessary. The families and communities do need time and space to mourn, but it can't be denied that it happened as part of a bigger and dangerous picture.

Lathyrus3

Wyllow3

Our Muslim communities are as deserving as our Jewish ones: both are protected and to a certain extend resourced by the government.

the far right of course has - apparently - done an about turn on their attitude to those in the Jewish Community.

I don't believe many of them for a minute.

Of course they are.

But it wasn’t relevant to talk about previous attacks on mosques when reporting on a fatal attack on a synagogue.
It added nothing to the news that was coming in

So why? The unconscious is more revealing than the overt.

I suspect you're right. If it was the BBC, it's obsessed by balance and the producers get it wrong.

On Friday night at our regular Palestinian peaceful gathering, this week the silence was broken by this speech:

"“There was horrific violence this morning on a Manchester synagogue, where two lives were sadly lost and it is utterly deplorable.

It shouldn’t be conflated with the fight for Palestinian rights, which is rooted in international law, human dignity and nonviolent resistance.

There will be people out there who are going to, you know, just filled with bigotry and racism, who are going to try and turn this into a sort of culture divide and a fight between communities, but that’s not what we’re about.

We’re a movement led by humanitarians, legal scholars, and peace activists across the globe. It doesn’t target places of worship, it does not condone violence against civilians, and it doesn’t stand for anti-semitism in any form.

We condemn the Manchester act unequivocally. We mourn with the Jewish community,

and we reject any attempt to exploit this tragedy to delegitimise the Palestinian cause or to stoke division. Our movement must be built on truth, justice and solidarity not fear hatred or misinformation. Let us stand together against all forms of violence. Let us stand together for peace.

I have a video, but it would ID where I live.

Wyllow3

Our Muslim communities are as deserving as our Jewish ones: both are protected and to a certain extend resourced by the government.

the far right of course has - apparently - done an about turn on their attitude to those in the Jewish Community.

I don't believe many of them for a minute.

Wyllow3 - nobody had intimated otherwise, but this thread is not about what religions are "deserving". It's about the attack that took place on a Jewish place of worship where Jewish people were murdered.

Can you not show some respect and just, on one thread at least, acknowledge the sentiments of the thread and leave it at that?

Your constant manipulating of posts and insistence in bringing up wider, more contentious issues and comparing the rights and wrongs of Judaism compared to other religions is getting a little wearing.

There are plenty of threads - in all of which you are a participant - to express your own opinions and religious stance. Please allow those genuinely affected by the atrocity to appropriately reflect without distraction.

Thank you Ferry

I didn’t make the original comment about “ children if a lesser god” sunami and the poster who did said it had been deleted.

I was intrigued because I couldn’t see how it had any relevance to the thread in its original context.

Then people started talking about Tennyson and saying the concept originated with him so I just chipped in with where I think it came from,

I have no idea what the first post said and I don’t personally mean anything by it because I don’t accept the concept of gods of any kind ( except those that exist in the human mind and desire)

Not sure if this is the right thread to raise this question but it’s relevant to some of the posts. Where does the expression Islamophobia originate? I’m intrigued as to why it isn’t called anti islamism (cf antisemitism). A phobia, from the Greek Phobos, means a fear of something, whether rational or irrational. So logically a fear of Islam, whether rational or not, isn’t illegal provided it doesn’t involve any prejudice. I’m afraid of heights but I’m not prejudiced against cliffs or mountains and my fear isn’t irrational. Similarly, I don’t wish to be part of a global caliphate.
Just asking🤔

Perhaps, and I could be wrong sunami, because I was late joining this thread, but there might have been hints of Islamaphobia at the beginning of the discussion? And that may have brought in the talk about Moslems having rights too. GNs at the start of the thread could fill you in on this as they may have had the chance to read the deleted ones.
So, back to positive practical ideas on ways to move forward.
As Fried said, confirm that facts are facts before posting, if possible.
Facebook has been mentioned as the Killer's father poster some vile stuff.
Facebook is an open media source. Yes, I know algorithms chose what you see, so highly unlikely any of us could have spotted this, but, if we catch a glimpse of anything genuinely untoward, and I say 'genuinely' because some of the assumptions made on here...well.
If media savvy folk on all platforms report dodgy stuff, that could help protect our neighbours. It is something that most on here could chose to do.

Wyllow3

Our Muslim communities are as deserving as our Jewish ones: both are protected and to a certain extend resourced by the government.

the far right of course has - apparently - done an about turn on their attitude to those in the Jewish Community.

I don't believe many of them for a minute.

Who do you label "far right". Ordinary British citizens who are sick and tired of the mess Labour is making of this country, from ruining the economy, to the mass of illegal immigrants who we, as tax payers, are having to support at the cost of billions, from selling off our assets then paying to rent them out. To the PM saying illegals are more deserving than the lawful tax paying community. Now I see the enlightened Muslim run council's are denigrating the people who want to fly our nations flag as yes "far right". How many people arrested at the freedom march attended by all People's of whatever ethnicity, 56, outsiders, to how many on the hate fest march on Sunday 500. Who are the violent ones, yes the far left. How many Christians arrested for street praying, a few against how many Muslims arrested for street praying, not a one. How many 16 year old arrested for flying their countries flag, one we saw disgracefully, how many arrested for hate speech and flying terrorist flags, until they were proscribed, non. Labour and Starmer have caused this unrest his hateful speech was the straw that broke the camels back . He'll hopefully never see out the elections next May. If his party don't put him out of post, the electorate certainly will have a good try.

FGT I'm aware that PA is a proscribed organisation. It is therefore unable to organise marches or protests. tbh I think the Govt's response to the attack on Brize Norton was knee jerk and failed to recognise the unintended consequences of proscribing an organisation that had a good deal of support from people who were not terrorists.
The people arrested on Saturday were attending a perfectly legal protest and sat with cards which IMO were a protest against the proscribing of PA not in support of violent or illegal actions, although of course, just holding a card supporting PA is illegal. I'm sure the police don't want to spend time arresting them but how else do they register their objection to something, which I think many people think was a grave error of judgement?
If I were to break into an arms manufacturer and create damage and mayhem waving a flag which says I am doing it in the name of MSF, would they proscribe MSF? I'm not dismissing the fact that a small group in the name of PA caused millions of pounds of damage but they have been arrested and will no doubt face the full force of the law and so they should, but proscribing PA IMO was a gross over reaction. It also drives members who might be dangerous terrorists underground, so I think we're all a bit safer keeping them above ground, so to speak.

Maremia you only have to look at the first pages to see how quickly the thread changed from one of respect and sympathy for everyone affected by the attack in Manchester. I tried to bring it back with my post " foxie48 Thu 02-Oct-25 18:10:45" all you need to do is read what followed to get an idea of how that went down with some posters. It's so very sad that we have become so divisive we can't even put our personal anger to one side in times of a National tragedy.

Proscribing Palestine Action was a clever and cynical political ploy.
On the day the order was passed, the Politicians had to vote on proscribing 3 groups. The other two were Maniacs Murder Cult and Russian Imperialist Movement.
If they had voted to 'save' Palestine Action then those other two mad groups would have also been saved.
Kudos, but not admiration, to whoever wangled this.

What do you think foxie about media monitoring? To protect our neighbours. I am only on Facebook, but there is so much more.

I don’t think we want active members of Palestine Action living amongst us in the UK. Do we have no self preservation instincts? Of course this government needed to ban this group and their supporters if they intend to sabotage the UK.
I have just read how successful Singapore has become under an authoritarian non democratic government. That made me think…..

Nik1ta

Not sure if this is the right thread to raise this question but it’s relevant to some of the posts. Where does the expression Islamophobia originate? I’m intrigued as to why it isn’t called anti islamism (cf antisemitism). A phobia, from the Greek Phobos, means a fear of something, whether rational or irrational. So logically a fear of Islam, whether rational or not, isn’t illegal provided it doesn’t involve any prejudice. I’m afraid of heights but I’m not prejudiced against cliffs or mountains and my fear isn’t irrational. Similarly, I don’t wish to be part of a global caliphate.
Just asking🤔

The word "Islamophobia" appeared in English in 1923, with a French thesis from 1910 describing a prejudice against Islam in Western and Christian cultures, according to Wikipedia.

In this case, "phobia" means prejudice not fear. It was an invented word with a specific meaning.

ronib

I don’t think we want active members of Palestine Action living amongst us in the UK. Do we have no self preservation instincts? Of course this government needed to ban this group and their supporters if they intend to sabotage the UK.
I have just read how successful Singapore has become under an authoritarian non democratic government. That made me think…..

ronib I have family members who have lived in Singapore for 40 years and are forever extolling the virtues of Singapore's authoritarian government. It made me start thinking about the nature of democracy and challenging some of the truisms about the word "democracy". I don't think democracy always achieves the best possible outcomes. Many others with much greater minds have discussed this.

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Winston S Churchill, 11 November 1947

Active member of Palestine Action? Do you mean the saboteurs. Thought they had been arrested?
Once the dreadful Gaza situation is resolved, there would be no more marches, for this cause.
Media monitoring anyone?

Lathyrus3

I didn’t make the original comment about “ children if a lesser god” sunami and the poster who did said it had been deleted.

I was intrigued because I couldn’t see how it had any relevance to the thread in its original context.

Then people started talking about Tennyson and saying the concept originated with him so I just chipped in with where I think it came from,

I have no idea what the first post said and I don’t personally mean anything by it because I don’t accept the concept of gods of any kind ( except those that exist in the human mind and desire)

It was me Lathyrus whose post was deleted. Reading about the Manchester synagogue attack highlights the mindset behind it --- seeing some lives as worth less than others, what I think of as treating people like “children of a lesser god.” It’s not just extremists who fall into this thinking; it sneaks into everyday life whenever we see whole groups — Jews, Muslims, immigrants, the disabled — as other. That’s where hatred takes root, and until we challenge it, violence can grow.

Ah, thank you. Of course we can use phrases in many different contexts and over thousands of years their uses change,

Wonder why you were deleted?

I was just interested.🙂

Lathyrus3

Ah, thank you. Of course we can use phrases in many different contexts and over thousands of years their uses change,

Wonder why you were deleted?

I was just interested.🙂

My original post must have offended someone for some reason. There is no point in my speculating why.

Caleo

Lathyrus3

I didn’t make the original comment about “ children if a lesser god” sunami and the poster who did said it had been deleted.

I was intrigued because I couldn’t see how it had any relevance to the thread in its original context.

Then people started talking about Tennyson and saying the concept originated with him so I just chipped in with where I think it came from,

I have no idea what the first post said and I don’t personally mean anything by it because I don’t accept the concept of gods of any kind ( except those that exist in the human mind and desire)

It was me Lathyrus whose post was deleted. Reading about the Manchester synagogue attack highlights the mindset behind it --- seeing some lives as worth less than others, what I think of as treating people like “children of a lesser god.” It’s not just extremists who fall into this thinking; it sneaks into everyday life whenever we see whole groups — Jews, Muslims, immigrants, the disabled — as other. That’s where hatred takes root, and until we challenge it, violence can grow.

Brilliant! That makes perfect sense!

Lathyrus Sorry that I misunderstood your post, but Caleo's explanation makes perfect sense.

The bigger picture here is that there is so much hatred and violence is growing.