Grooming gangs in London

If She is 'blind', she is listening to evidence of the crime, not looking at the 'colour' of the criminal.
Is that what you mean?

Yes in my experience it is. Quite frequently the feminism that is cheered on by large sections of society is feminism that does very little for women and frequently centres men. The other kind of feminism/safeguarding, the one which makes a difference, usually involves those doing it being labelled as troublemakers. It is a fairly well known pattern.

Maremia

Were you thinking of Justice, perhaps?

Contrary to popular belief, the statue of the goddess of Justice on the Old Bailey (dating from 1907) doesn't have a blindfold either.

www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5417053

Themies (sp) the Ancient Greek goddess of law and justice is portrayed as blindfolded.

GrannyGravy13

Themies (sp) the Ancient Greek goddess of law and justice is portrayed as blindfolded.

Where?

Certainly not the one we are all familiar with.

I don’t buy it Galaxy. A huge amount of resources goes into public inquiries. Whether they ever achieve what they set out to do is a moot point in my opinion. What they offer though is an opportunity for victims to be heard, and hopefully some shared learning which affects policy. Why should some get the chance and others not in what will be a one off inquiry? I would be incandescent if I had been groomed by a white, or black gang. What is the difference to you if you’re the victim, would be my question. Of course there are issues specific to some gangs (bearing in mind ‘Asian’ is a broad church, and men of different religions and countries were involved, with a number of gangs mixed in nature) and they are an important aspect from which lessons must be learned.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Themies (sp) the Ancient Greek goddess of law and justice is portrayed as blindfolded.

Where?

Certainly not the one we are all familiar with.

Blindfold: Later depictions of Themis often include a blindfold, representing her impartiality and the idea that justice is blind to individual status.

MaizieD

^The Statue of Liberty wears a blindfold^.

No it doesn't.

Oops. My error.
Lady Justice it is. But you get my drift of impartiality.

AI Overview

No, the Statue of Liberty does not wear a blindfold; she is the Roman goddess Libertas.

The blindfold is a feature of Lady Justice, a different allegorical figure who represents the administration of law, and she holds a sword and scales. While some depictions of Lady Justice wear a blindfold to symbolize impartiality, the Statue of Liberty does not.

Statue of Liberty: She is the personification of liberty, holding a torch and a tablet, but not a blindfold or scales.

Lady Justice: This figure represents the justice system and is often depicted blindfolded, with scales in one hand and a sword in the other. The blindfold signifies that justice should be impartial and not swayed by power, status, or wealth.

*MaizieD^ Themis wasn’t originally depicted blindfolded.

The blindfold was a later addition said to have originated from the Roman goddess Justitia (Justice)

GrannyGravy13

*MaizieD^ Themis wasn’t originally depicted blindfolded.

The blindfold was a later addition said to have originated from the Roman goddess Justitia (Justice)

Let's just say that the blindfold is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the scales, which weigh the evidence.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

*MaizieD^ Themis wasn’t originally depicted blindfolded.

The blindfold was a later addition said to have originated from the Roman goddess Justitia (Justice)

Let's just say that the blindfold is irrelevant.

What is relevant is the scales, which weigh the evidence.

Definitely, I have nothing to do until GS arrives from school, so I am wasting my time on GN…

Casdon

I don’t buy it Galaxy. A huge amount of resources goes into public inquiries. Whether they ever achieve what they set out to do is a moot point in my opinion. What they offer though is an opportunity for victims to be heard, and hopefully some shared learning which affects policy. Why should some get the chance and others not in what will be a one off inquiry? I would be incandescent if I had been groomed by a white, or black gang. What is the difference to you if you’re the victim, would be my question. Of course there are issues specific to some gangs (bearing in mind ‘Asian’ is a broad church, and men of different religions and countries were involved, with a number of gangs mixed in nature) and they are an important aspect from which lessons must be learned.

You managed to answer your owns questions well, in your own last 4 lines.

No the blindfold IS important!
It enables impartiality - no differentiation with colour/ethnicity. ✔️

fancythat

Casdon

I don’t buy it Galaxy. A huge amount of resources goes into public inquiries. Whether they ever achieve what they set out to do is a moot point in my opinion. What they offer though is an opportunity for victims to be heard, and hopefully some shared learning which affects policy. Why should some get the chance and others not in what will be a one off inquiry? I would be incandescent if I had been groomed by a white, or black gang. What is the difference to you if you’re the victim, would be my question. Of course there are issues specific to some gangs (bearing in mind ‘Asian’ is a broad church, and men of different religions and countries were involved, with a number of gangs mixed in nature) and they are an important aspect from which lessons must be learned.

You managed to answer your owns questions well, in your own last 4 lines.

I didn’t? I can’t see any benefit in doing half a job in an inquiry, which is what it would be if only some grooming gangs were incorporated. Every gang is in fact different, whether some or all of the men involved are from one country and/or religion, or whether others are also involved, or whether it’s a gang with no ‘Asian’ men, but other men are involved. The inquirywill no doubt identify some clear groups, and make some specific recommendations accordingly, but it’s only part of the picture.

I thought that's what you meant Fried.

Not quite the same, but relates in part to that tragic story of the young mother who was murdered, see posts upthread, and then the Grandad had to fight for custody of the child, from the rapist, murdering father, (or was it his family?)
Starmer spoke in Parliament about the proposed deletion of the clause,
'Presumption of parental involvement'.
Slow, but still progress.

TerriBull

Jane43

Sorry Terribull I did not see your post I was repeating the case you describe, it has always been on my mind because it is so close to where we live and was also in the home town of our two granddaughters.

I do hope all the girls of that town are safe now, like other hot spots, there are quite a number of them, Telford has had many young girls fall victims to these gangs. The fate of Lucy Lowe and her family was truly horrific.

West Mercia Police worked very hard to bring some of these men to justice, unfortunately the case collapsed because one of the girls withdrew because she was cross examined repeatedly very aggressively by seven barristers, one for each of the accused, her morality was called into question in the most disgusting way. There was actually a tv documentary about this. The town has also been blighted by organized marches by Tommy Robinson, thankfully there hasn’t been one for some time now.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

No the blindfold IS important!
It enables impartiality - no differentiation with colour/ethnicity. ✔️

I'm sorry,,but why are you emphasising this? Isn't it a quality we take for granted with British justice?

Or is it a get out if the result of the inquiry isn't to people's satisfaction?

The right have been working hard on instilling mistrust of British justice. What with judges as 'enemies of the people',claims of 'two tier justice' and all the 'leftie human rights lawyers'.

What would people say if someone of Asian origin was asked to chair the inquiry, I wonder?

Is there any way to protect vulnerable witnesses from such bullying tactics by lawyers?

I was only trying to point out that the colour of a person’s skin should make absolutely no impact on deciding whether or not they are guilty. Everyone should be treated the same. Good souls come in all creeds and colours. Bad people are just that.

Oreo

But in any case the survivors need to be listened to, they have no faith in ex police or ex social services people.The Chair needs to be totally impartial.

The chair needs to be impartial, not ex-police or ex-social services. But there does need to be police & social service people on the panel if we want the best results from the process.
The failings were of the police & social services. Therefore they(police & social services) have to be an important part of the solution, & the best way of making recommendations that they can respect & implement as quickly as possible, is to have representatives from their professions taking a role in the enquiry.They know better than anyone where things can go wrong in their management structure & how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

fancythat

Wyllow3

GrannyGravy13

Maremia

If help and justice is to come, it should come for all victims, not just the victims of a chosen ethnicity.

Deflection

This is about Asian grooming gangs.

If you are concerned about other ethnic grooming gangs maybe start a thread…

No - if we think the issues are about all grooming gangs but of course that does mean all so includes those concerns.

Given that the thread is entitled Grooming Gangs in London we are off on a wider brief already.

Wyllow3 - were you grromed yourself?
By non Asians?

Several of us seem to find your constant deflection posts quite difficult to understand.

I was in a co-ercive abuse partner than marriage for 11 years and the end bits were grim - police, threats of death, (yes truly), threats to my DiL, fancythat

That is not a deflection post!

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^A focus on Asian/Pakistani gangs who abuse white girls stigmatises Asian males and gives the impression that all of them are sexual predators^.

No it doesn’t at all growstuff. Stop splitting hairs.

Undeniably Pakistani rape gangs have been operating for nigh on 20 years now, pretty much unchecked. In areas where Councils were/are Labour run (votes anyone? Always important to an MP especially if hanging on by a very slim majority so let’s not upset the apple cart 🤔).

Taxi drivers (mostly) offering fast food treats, alcohol and drugs to girls who were often ‘in care’ (that’s a laugh in itself - how does that even pretend to be look ing after vulnerable, emotionally needy young teens who constantly went AWOL and came ‘home’ sometimes days later - having been ‘passed around’ by said males). One girl has said 60 men raped her over an extended period of time. Ye gods. Just let that thought alone permeate one’s mind.

But to even suggest that by focusing on these known perpetrators vilify a whole ethnicity is just plain daft (and insulting).

Anyone, no matter what creed, colour o religion should be held to account. No fear, no favour. Same just laws for everyone please.

The Statue of Liberty wears a blindfold.
That’s how it should be.

I wasn't "splitting hairs" and you you just proved I wasn't.

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