Gransnet forums

News & politics

Grooming gangs in London

(392 Posts)
Primrose53 Mon 20-Oct-25 22:38:38

Big U turn tonight from the Police who now say there ARE grooming gangs in London despite Sadiq Khan saying otherwise. Should have listened to Maggie Oliver. 😉

This needs updating but explains some of it

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2122808/sadiq-khan-grooming-gang-files#

Primrose53 Wed 22-Oct-25 17:48:45

petra

If you have the time listen to the wonderful brave Times Reporter who got the story out nationally.
Andrew Norton.
And that started with a phone call from another wonderful brave woman: Anne Cryer.
I don’t use the word brave lightly.
If people like Maggie Oliver have to have protection and Nazir Hafzel have had their and their families lives threatened you are a brave man and woman to take on this evil.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0026ncy

Maggie Oliver was on GB News last night and at the end she thanked Patrick Christys and GB News for tirelessly investigating the grooming gangs. She said without Charlie Peters work on this it would never have got this far and was very pleased that they kept this in the news when others failed to do so.

well done GB News 👏👏

Maremia Wed 22-Oct-25 17:51:58

Just tragic Allira.

Allira Wed 22-Oct-25 17:52:29

Primrose53

petra

If you have the time listen to the wonderful brave Times Reporter who got the story out nationally.
Andrew Norton.
And that started with a phone call from another wonderful brave woman: Anne Cryer.
I don’t use the word brave lightly.
If people like Maggie Oliver have to have protection and Nazir Hafzel have had their and their families lives threatened you are a brave man and woman to take on this evil.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0026ncy

Maggie Oliver was on GB News last night and at the end she thanked Patrick Christys and GB News for tirelessly investigating the grooming gangs. She said without Charlie Peters work on this it would never have got this far and was very pleased that they kept this in the news when others failed to do so.

well done GB News 👏👏

It makes you wonder who else is covering up what and why.

Maremia Wed 22-Oct-25 17:54:00

Are they planning to investigate all ethnicities of grooming gangs?

DrWatson Wed 22-Oct-25 18:00:22

For whoever referred to GB News being the "only channel talking about this", Newsnight (BBC2) have had this item on, and some time ago.

For Wyllow, and "on the Tory watch" -- going back decades, this Grooming Gang problem pretty much only happens in areas with Labour Councils, right round the country (and that dates back to when there wear far fewer of them).

For ANYONE surprised that Sadiq Khan is trying to minimise a problem that affects his race and religion -- well, you really haven't been keeping up!

NB -- this isn't a party political stance, I've frequently said I have no great faith in ANY politicos, of any badge, to avoid the burdens of incompetence, corruption, and/or self/party interest preceding ours.

petra Wed 22-Oct-25 18:18:37

Maremia

So, all of this has surfaced since Labour was in power?
Or did the Tory Government know about it, but didn't quite think it was important enough to do anything?
And will they be looking at grooming gangs of all ethnicities?

I’m assuming you mean when labour came to power in 2024. ?
It certainly came to Tony Blair’s notice in 2003 when Anne Cryer contacted him. That, together with a documentary on tv highlighting the abuse in Keighley where an 28 month investigation had been going on.
Please note: Labour was in power from 1997-2010 =13 years.
The tories were in power from 2010- 2024 = 14 years.
Nobody comes out smelling of roses on this.
But at at least the tories didn’t shout racist at there own people as the Labour Party did ( back in 2003)

www.lbc.co.uk/article/mp-smeared-racist-grooming-gangs-rpXrR_2/

Lathyrus3 Wed 22-Oct-25 18:24:39

Somebody explain to me why the argument about which political party did or didn’t do what bothers them more than investigating and stopping the grooming gangs.

Rosie51 Wed 22-Oct-25 18:43:19

Maremia this inquiry has been triggered by the fact that the police and social services were aware of these predominately Muslim men of Pakistani heritage who formed gangs to groom and sexually abuse, rape etc vulnerable children, mainly girls and many in social care. Police and social workers didn't speak up to avoid raising 'racial tensions'. Some went so far as to suggest girls far below the age of consent were in fact consenting. One ten year old was categorised as having prostituted herself! So the ethnicity of the gangs is a factor.

Why are you concerned that the inquiry should focus on these victims, some of whom have waived their anonymity for the hope of justice and progress? There is a huge amount of information online which you could read to acquaint yourself with why this particular inquiry should concentrate on this particular area. Or are you wanting to join Jess Phillips in calling the victims who have resigned from the panel liars?

Kate1949 Wed 22-Oct-25 18:55:03

All grooming gangs are hideous and should be investigated no matter what their ethnicity. However the majority of those arrested recently are Asian. There is no getting away from that. It's what some people are afraid to say.

ferry23 Wed 22-Oct-25 19:01:37

I'm sorry I'm not adding any meaningful to this thread.

I'm just joining it to say I'm finding this more distasteful and distressing the more I hear and read.

I did think that in the last 50 or 60 years women have managed to shake off a lot of the "subservient, second class citizens etc" labels. I like to think I played a tiny part. I was fortunate in being raised in a way that I never gave a thought to girls and boys/men and women not being anything but equal.

The rise of mysogyny - easily accessed via social media, the grooming gangs, the Epstein affair - and even a story line on Eastenders seems to me that we're just going backwards.

I feel so for these girls. Both for the ignonimy they are going through and for those who have made the brave and forceful choice to stand down as they felt "stitched up".

Kate1949 Wed 22-Oct-25 19:12:04

Anyone who hasn't suffered abuse of any kind, cannot possibly imagine the fear and horrors these girls went through. Hearing and believing them is the least that should be done.

Lathyrus3 Wed 22-Oct-25 19:13:20

Maremia

Are they planning to investigate all ethnicities of grooming gangs?

An important part of the enquiry is not just to look at the ethnicity of grooming gangs , but at the way in which knowledge of what was happening was treated.

It is a fact that our data on ethnicity is unreliable because in many cases it was not recorded - for whatever reason. The reason for that needs to be established along with any difference in investigations and prosecutions based on ethnicity.

This is a vital, vital part of the investigation and one that the victims believe is being brushed under the carpet.

Along with the victims testimony as to the part religious belief paid in their grooming. The accounts of how this was this presented to them as a justification for their abuse makes horrific reading and should not be ignored.

MayBee70 Wed 22-Oct-25 19:20:12

eazybee

It is dishonest and quite deliberate, and a tactic that Labour employ with increasing frequency; refusing to admit the situation, denying it exists, then agreeing to an investigation but simply ignoring it.
Inquiries were promised after Jess Phillips did her best to limit them to five only; there was footage of her in Parliament blaming the Tories for everything because it happened during their watch. Perhaps now she realises the difficulties and obstructions they and anyone else has in conducting an investigation with people as unfortunately influential as Sadiq Khan denying the facts.

I must admit to not following this thoroughly ( still avoiding the news) but I still don’t understand why Labour, who have been in power for just over a year, seem to be getting the blame for everything when the Conservatives had been in power for 14 years prior to that. Seeing a small clip of Johnson at the covid enquiry made me remember what a useless disorganised embarrassing PM he was. Having said that I don’t intend to defend Labour out of loyalty. But I feel that people have short memories when they look back on the previous government.

Allira Wed 22-Oct-25 19:24:07

Maremia

Are they planning to investigate all ethnicities of grooming gangs?

I don't know but finding out if any gangs are operated by and have members who are illegal immigrants would be helpful to the authorities.

Leelaylo Wed 22-Oct-25 19:24:27

Can we please stop calling them grooming gangs and call them what they are ...Rape gangs

Shizam Wed 22-Oct-25 19:32:37

It is beyond evil how those in establishment keep deliberately failing the victims of these crimes. And shielding the perpetrators to protect their jobs. Those poor young women.

Skydancer Wed 22-Oct-25 19:32:59

Kate1949

It seems that being or appearing racist is the worst thing anyone can be these days. Yes it's awful but fear of being accused of it really has gone too far.

Definitely gone too far.

DaisyAnneReturns Wed 22-Oct-25 19:40:24

Historically, societies across the globe have been faced with issues of crime, exploitation, and violence. The phenomenon of organised crime, including gangs, brothels, and various forms of abuse, is not a recent development nor a problem existing only in particular definable groups. These are deeply rooted issues in human history and are often driven by factors such as poverty, social inequality, and lack of opportunity.

In major cities throughout history, activities such as brothels and illegal trade have operated openly or clandestinely, often exploiting vulnerable populations, including children. Poverty has historically been a significant catalyst for law-breaking and exploitation. When individuals lack access to education, employment, and social support, they may turn to illegal activities as a means of survival. This dynamic is universal and not restricted to any one community or ethnicity.

Gangs too, have been part of human civilisation for centuries. They often form in marginalised communities seeking protection or identity in the face of social neglect. Their existence is intertwined with larger issues like economic disparity, institutional neglect, and social fragmentation; factors that are found across all societies, regardless of ethnicity or religion.

Focusing solely on ethnicity or religion as the source of these problems is a form of misdirection that diverts us from systemic issues. It encourages stereotypes and discrimination. Recognising that these problems are universal and historically persistent encourages a more constructive approach. One that aims to address underlying social issues rather than scapegoat specific groups.

petra Wed 22-Oct-25 19:58:50

MayBee70 As I explained earlier Tony Blair was presented with evidence in 2003 by the MP for Keithley, Anne Cryer.
She was labelled a racist by many in the higher echelons of the party.
If you listen to the link I put up ( it’s on BBC sounds) it will explain why people are so angry with the Labour Party.
Labour were in power for 13 years while this cancer was ( and sill is ) growing in our communities.
And happening right now as we are posting 🤬
If someone had had the bollocks to grasp the nettle 22 years ago we might have stood a chance of wiping it out.
But it’s too late now 😥

Wyllow3 Wed 22-Oct-25 19:59:31

What matters is getting the right person to lead the investigation. The two victims interviewed on BBC news tonight took different approaches: one said she didn't want to take part anymore, another said she very much did as it was important to bring people to justice.

The problem is that anyone who has been in the police or Social Services is not easily trusted because of what happened, but on the other hand it has to be someone who has a good knowledge of the Law and Social Services "in practice".

It's a difficult one. Prof Jay was the leader the separate Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), a probe which lasted seven years and made all the recommendations, believes that more inquiries just delay the process of putting the recommendations into practice

The Labour MP for Rotherham, Sarah Champion, has been at the forefront of calling for Justice since 2015 consistently and persistently and she has always been behind a full enquiry, and of course of it was a Muslim, Nazir Afzal, who intimated the first prosecutions.

So what is needed is someone who has the knowledge and experience that will command respect from all parties, no easy matter: it will happen: we may not have needed this enquiry if the government in 2022 seriously enacted the recommendations which relate to cover ups.

I think investigations should include cover ups which involve all ethnic groups. Cover ups can take many forms, the reasons for unwillingness to believe victims is not just for overt political reasons.

It can be from backward looking police officers who still don't really believe the testimony of victims and still believe its party the victims fault - or simply refuse to allocate resources: or are short of resources as they are overwhelmed with incidents happening in the present

Allsorts Wed 22-Oct-25 20:16:54

Everyone knows these gangs are Asian, who almost have a free ticket because you cant mention race even if its the truth.. You have to ask yourself why that is. Is it because people at the top are involved. I am glad those two girls had the courage to walk away, perhaps now the papers will get involved in finding out every last one of those involved.
Maggie is the only person you can trust,

Wyllow3 Wed 22-Oct-25 20:25:15

petra

MayBee70 As I explained earlier Tony Blair was presented with evidence in 2003 by the MP for Keithley, Anne Cryer.
She was labelled a racist by many in the higher echelons of the party.
If you listen to the link I put up ( it’s on BBC sounds) it will explain why people are so angry with the Labour Party.
Labour were in power for 13 years while this cancer was ( and sill is ) growing in our communities.
And happening right now as we are posting 🤬
If someone had had the bollocks to grasp the nettle 22 years ago we might have stood a chance of wiping it out.
But it’s too late now 😥

This is oversimplifying matters and has a fundamental misunderstanding of how different attitudes were in 2003 to the present day.

In 2003 few police had a real, profound understanding of how a web of deceit and fear surrounds victims so that they could (and still cannot) not provide adequate evidence for the then standards of prosecution. It was still endemic in the C of E, for example.

It was often regarded as shameful to report abuse by both the victims and their families, and the total lack of specialist police teams (except for proven cases regarding younger children) made it impossible to "join the dots".

Men still regarded themselves as having rights to abuse their partners and their children on a huge scale. Quite often, SSD were aware of abuse, but could not provide the evidence then needed.

Bruises, beatings, were recognised: they are visible:

but co-ercion and the apparent willingness of the victims to participate in what happened was literally not part of the "police handbook" at the time".

As regards abuse and the safeguarding of adults/young adults it was not until the Care Act 2014 which extended safeguarding duties to cover adults at risk, placing a general duty on local authorities to promote the wellbeing of individuals, and it took a lot longer for the police to understand the psychology of co-ercion and for the CPS to likewise have procedures to follow.

*and of course in some cases the police themselves actively joined in the rape and other sorts of abuse (ref whats still going on in Charing Cross - compared with the very decent policemen I met whilst pursuing an abusive husband.

This was in 2022, and although they in theory recognised coercion, in practice they did not know the questions to ask to "prove" abuse. They wanted/needed Written or recorded evidence.

How can some young woman who isnt articulate, doesnt trust the police anyway..

Maremia Wed 22-Oct-25 20:29:06

If help and justice is to come, it should come for all victims, not just the victims of a chosen ethnicity.

Maremia Wed 22-Oct-25 20:31:46

And 2003 is an awful long time ago.

MayBee70 Wed 22-Oct-25 20:35:20

I think a modern day problem is trying to avoid any sort of bias because I know for a fact that I’m biased about a lot of things even though I’m aware if it and try to avoid it.