Venezuela air attack

David, TRUMP IS AN OPPRESSOR. He deserves the same fate you would have him bestow upon Maduro and anyone else.

You seem to think that white-majority western nations get to decide when poorer, resource-rich nations require regime changes while maintaining some weirdly hypocritical moral high ground. The rest of the world isn’t buying this imperialist fallacy anymore.

There has not been a regime change in Venezuela. The ruling party continues under its new president. Bit pointless from one point of view…

ronib

There has not been a regime change in Venezuela. The ruling party continues under its new president. Bit pointless from one point of view…

I did keep pointing that out yesterday.

Just thought Blessed Art hadn’t registered the point you made so astutely yesterday. It does need repeating.

The sanctions in both cases Iran too, has resulted in oppression and poorer standard of living for both populations but has not had one iota of influence on the leadership. They have just made conditions worse and pushed them all closer to China who happily supports them

It wasn't for regime change.
It wasn't because of the drugs,
It wasn't for the Venezuelan people.
It was for the oil.

Venezuela sells it's oil to China, India and Russia at a discount and they usually pay in gold or some other non dollar way. There is a strong but complex link between oil prices, the petrodollar and the US economy, so part of this move by Trump is probably about forcing Venezuela to sell oil in petrodollars. Selling for gold weakens demand for the U.S. dollar and undermine its status as the global reserve currency which in turn affects it's borrowing capacity. Sorry this is the best way to describe it!

foxie48

Venezuela sells it's oil to China, India and Russia at a discount and they usually pay in gold or some other non dollar way. There is a strong but complex link between oil prices, the petrodollar and the US economy, so part of this move by Trump is probably about forcing Venezuela to sell oil in petrodollars. Selling for gold weakens demand for the U.S. dollar and undermine its status as the global reserve currency which in turn affects it's borrowing capacity. Sorry this is the best way to describe it!

The supplier could sell in whatever means requested, gold, dollars, arms, wheat or anything else but it’s all got to relate to the reserve currency.
Being the reserve currency gives the dollar a lot of advantages, sellers trust it more than anything else, unless there is a need to avoid any sanctions against banks. This is where gold comes in it holds its value and is untraceable but vulnerable to theft.

Many countries have very weak currencies so commercial transactions are done in US Dollars even tourist activities, hotels etc you pay in $. Oil is just part of the global trade, most commodities including food are priced in $.

The US dollar is not immune to variation but until there is a more stable currency it’s the best we have got, honestly I don’t see that changing

David I'm not suggesting it will what I have written about is another reason for Trump's intervention in Venezuela which I don't think has been mentioned before. However, I think the "petrodollar" market which is estimated to be worth 2.5-3.5 trillion dollars is in a rather different league to the tourist paying for his hotel bill in dollars rather than the local currency etc. It gives the dollar stability and props up the US borrowing which is currently about 38.5 trillion dollars and represents somewhere nearly 125% of GDP keeping their borrowing rate artificially lower than it would be for any other country with that level of debt.

foxie48

David I'm not suggesting it will what I have written about is another reason for Trump's intervention in Venezuela which I don't think has been mentioned before. However, I think the "petrodollar" market which is estimated to be worth 2.5-3.5 trillion dollars is in a rather different league to the tourist paying for his hotel bill in dollars rather than the local currency etc. It gives the dollar stability and props up the US borrowing which is currently about 38.5 trillion dollars and represents somewhere nearly 125% of GDP keeping their borrowing rate artificially lower than it would be for any other country with that level of debt.

A growing rival to the dollar is the Chinese Yuan, many oil imports into China are paid in Petro Yuan, notably sanctioned states, even India pays for Russian oil in Yuan. All of this is strengthening China’s hand in the oil and financial markets, is that a good thing for western nations who rely on the US for stability.

The US is borrowing too much, to reduce that it’s either got to increase production or cut spending, that problem remains whether Trump is president or not

keeping their borrowing rate artificially lower than it would be for any other country with that level of debt.

Hmm.

Have you seen the Japanese debt to GDP ratio? 230% Interest rate on government bons around 1'5 to 2'5%?

US interest rate around 4%, Debt to GDP 125%

Japan is unusual because most of it's debt is not with foreign countries. It remains stable due to high domestic ownership of its debt, low interest rates, and cultural savings. This is not true of the US or most other countries.

ronib

There has not been a regime change in Venezuela. The ruling party continues under its new president. Bit pointless from one point of view…

Pointless call out, as Trump will not allow anyone there to be in charge if they oppose him like Maduro.

foxie48

Japan is unusual because most of it's debt is not with foreign countries. It remains stable due to high domestic ownership of its debt, low interest rates, and cultural savings. This is not true of the US or most other countries.

My point, which I didn't really make clear, is that US bond interest rates aren't particularly low. I've been looking at comparison with UK, Canada & Australia. Canada's is slightly lower than US, Australia and UK slightly higher.

I should also be clear that I'm looking at the relative cost of servicing the bonds. not the yield, which is an entirely different thing which makes no difference to a country's cost of servicing the bonds.

Yes, I also read about the 'petrodollar' theory.

My point is that because the dollar is the primary reserve currency, it is protected in a way that other currencies are not. However, de-dollarisation eg using gold rather than the dollar for global transactions could threaten the dollar's dominance and together with it's high level of debt create financial instability.

foxie48

Japan is unusual because most of it's debt is not with foreign countries. It remains stable due to high domestic ownership of its debt, low interest rates, and cultural savings. This is not true of the US or most other countries.

Yes very high debt in Japan which has resulted in a plummeting exchange rate, much of that debt is QE used since around 2010

The oil companies are already on planes and Venezuela will send oil to the US, who will sell it at market price and "hold" the profit, to be controlled by Trump, so it will benefit the people of Venezuela.

Looks like he didn't have to wait long to profit.

The government of Venezuela is maintaining control internally, Rodriguez is being referred to as “Acting” President, what that means is not clear. The US seems to be controlling external affairs including oil with the cooperation of Venezuela.

It seems a Russian tanker breaking sanctions was turned away amid protests from Russia, no word on tankers from China visiting.

BlessedArt

David, TRUMP IS AN OPPRESSOR. He deserves the same fate you would have him bestow upon Maduro and anyone else.

You seem to think that white-majority western nations get to decide when poorer, resource-rich nations require regime changes while maintaining some weirdly hypocritical moral high ground. The rest of the world isn’t buying this imperialist fallacy anymore.

So you think Maduro is the good guy despite 8 million of his own people fleeing his persecution. How many have left the US persecuted by Trump, the reports I see is millions entering the US, a few illegal migrants left who should not have been there.

I remind you the sanctions against Maduro are backed by UK and most western countries, and we also deport illegal migrants.

BlessedArt

ronib

There has not been a regime change in Venezuela. The ruling party continues under its new president. Bit pointless from one point of view…

Pointless call out, as Trump will not allow anyone there to be in charge if they oppose him like Maduro.

The definition of regime change can include partial removal of leadership or administration. If a country with no rights or jurisdiction over another country forcibly removes its leader and annoints someone they like better, de facto that would appear to be regime change.

I have no time for Maduro and it is good that he has gone.

But that is not the main point. Trump actually thinks that he has the right to go onto other sovereign countries lands, not in the least concerned with justice , fairness or helping people to get rid of dictators, but simply so that his greedy grabbing for Trump 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, with his little piggy eyes looking round for more countries and people he can use his bully boy tactics on.

I was in Greenland last summer and can assure you that of all the people I met and spoke to , none of them wanted Trump or the americans to have anything to do with their country.

To think that Trump has dementia is the kindest way you could consider his behaviour and his seeming to think that once he states he or USA wants something , he should then expect to be given it or use bullying tactics to take what is not his! His behaviour ranges from the toddler with a tantrum to the bully boy demanding other peoples things for no other reason that that he wants them. Anyone who considers themselves fair and decent should be doing everything in their power to stop him in his tracks right now. He only learns that he can continue with such behaviour if no one and nothing stops him or questions his actions.

The other reason for his action would seem to be to divert peoples attention from his own situation with lack of support for his own things.

If caring people and countries do not put together a plan to stop him, then he will continue on is selfish and dangerous ways and no doubt encourage others of his ilk to follow suit. I have lived through many difficult times and remember how things felt in the Bay of Pigs times, and have to say that the way this man is behaving now feels just as bad, if not worse as you cannot tell what crazy idea will come into his mind, and no one can predict his next move, apart from being certain that it will be to the benefit of D Trump.

Agree with you absolutely, madeleine.

As I've stated before, it's entirely possible to hold two different views on a related subject. You can deplore the actions of the president of Venezuela and his cabal towards his people while still deploring the actions of another president in invading Venezuela to illegally taking that president into custody. I wholeheartedly agree with Madeleine.

Grandmabatty

As I've stated before, it's entirely possible to hold two different views on a related subject. You can deplore the actions of the president of Venezuela and his cabal towards his people while still deploring the actions of another president in invading Venezuela to illegally taking that president into custody. I wholeheartedly agree with Madeleine.

I agree with Madeleine too.

It's really ridiculous to leap from our disapproval of the US action in removing Maduro to accusing us of thinking that Maduro is a 'good guy'.