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Venezuela air attack

(408 Posts)
Grandmabatty Sat 03-Jan-26 08:35:31

US have attacked Venezuela with missiles. This is unforgivable

MaizieD Sun 04-Jan-26 10:38:24

ronib

I understood that oil companies were to extract oil which is primarily diesel and can be used as asphalt. Not too sure what the demand is for this type of oil and can it be blended with lighter oil? A number of oil companies will be involved I heard.

Trump was a bit vague on actual governance but there will be a proper transition. If the previous president was a drug baron, I can see only a positive future for Venezuela.

Well. it's interesting, ronib because the US has actually practically ruined Venezuela's oil industry be interfering in its politics for long time, imposing sanctions (which Trump doesn't appear to have lifted until now) because it disapproves of its left anmd right wing governments. Apparently the oil industry's infrastructure is in a very poor state and will need a great deal of investment to rectify.

I have seen comment to the effect that there is a falling demand for the type of oil Venezuela produces (blame those pesky new energy technologies). So it might not be the financial bonanza Trump is expecting. Don't forget, he is NOT a canny business man. Lots of business failures in his past.

ayse Sun 04-Jan-26 10:47:43

Elegran

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Where are the human rights in Trumps actions?

It really is time and for Europe in particular to recognise that we must begin to de-couple our systems away from the USA, including defence, monetary, AI and related systems etc, and begin to get full independence from a country which is now acting as a colonialist authoritarian towards South America in particular, but its tentacles spread far and wide.

We must absolutely make clear that no one in Europe will tolerate a single USA foot in Greenland.

We simply cannot and won’t do that, not now and not ever I should think.
The US is Europe’s bulwark against China, Russia and Iran and associated countries.

So who is our bulwark against the US? If Trump gets into his disordered mind that Britain is the weak, sharia- dominated country that we are painted by some nitwits MAGA ultra-conservatives, what is to stop him bombing the Uk and carrying off our PM and Cabinet to the US, and planting his choice of "leader" and regime in their place?

Just what I was thinking this morning. I wonder how many people here would welcome that invasion?

Just to remind everyone, it’s said that there has been interference in our electoral processes by the USA, Russia and China!

fancythat Sun 04-Jan-26 10:58:58

Elegran

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Where are the human rights in Trumps actions?

It really is time and for Europe in particular to recognise that we must begin to de-couple our systems away from the USA, including defence, monetary, AI and related systems etc, and begin to get full independence from a country which is now acting as a colonialist authoritarian towards South America in particular, but its tentacles spread far and wide.

We must absolutely make clear that no one in Europe will tolerate a single USA foot in Greenland.

We simply cannot and won’t do that, not now and not ever I should think.
The US is Europe’s bulwark against China, Russia and Iran and associated countries.

So who is our bulwark against the US? If Trump gets into his disordered mind that Britain is the weak, sharia- dominated country that we are painted by some nitwits MAGA ultra-conservatives, what is to stop him bombing the Uk and carrying off our PM and Cabinet to the US, and planting his choice of "leader" and regime in their place?

Nothing.

Except God.

fancythat Sun 04-Jan-26 11:01:56

Which has been part of my point since my posts of about 9pm last night.

Europe is weak. In all sorts of ways.

20 years of defence cuts have made it so.
Which is exactly what defence chiefs have been saying for decades.
[Yes I know defence spending has increased a bit. But too late if we are attacked soon[dont think we will be personally, but who knows].

Allira Sun 04-Jan-26 11:21:13

Trump was a bit vague on actual governance

How surprising! He hasn't a clue, has he.

foxie48 Sun 04-Jan-26 11:38:24

Trump doesn't have any proper plans for the governance of Venezuela. There's 1000's of people with guns in Venezuela, loads of generals with their noses in the money trough and I very much doubt that Trump intends to put permanent boots on the ground. What he's created is a dangerous state of instability and permission to other governments to walk into their neighbouring countries to take what they want. Venezuela could end up with even worse governance than it has now if Trump deals with Maduro's people to cut a deal. It's an absolute mess!

Fallingstar Sun 04-Jan-26 11:43:33

Ronib, Maduro may or may not be a drugs baron, joining other unscrupulous and corrupt leaders around the world,but the question should be is the president of the US allowed to go into another sovereign country and forcibly remove their leader before occupying said country?
Is this to become how leaders worldwide who don’t like another country’s leader are allowed to behave?
Think about that one because those leaders worldwide are watching what Trump has done very closely and taking notes no doubt.

Boz Sun 04-Jan-26 12:05:29

It is obvious that the World is moving into a state where the most rich and powerful call the shots.

There is nothing to be done except watch how it plays out.

A case of Who Dares Wins with little chance of the
Meek Inheriting the Earth.

David49 Sun 04-Jan-26 12:40:30

Fallingstar

Ronib, Maduro may or may not be a drugs baron, joining other unscrupulous and corrupt leaders around the world,but the question should be is the president of the US allowed to go into another sovereign country and forcibly remove their leader before occupying said country?
Is this to become how leaders worldwide who don’t like another country’s leader are allowed to behave?
Think about that one because those leaders worldwide are watching what Trump has done very closely and taking notes no doubt.

The US has no intention of occupying Venezuela they want to see a moderate democratic government removing Maduro enables that.
They may well provide military support to moderates to achieve that because there are bound to be those who supported Maduro, drug cartels going to fight back for sure.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 04-Jan-26 12:43:07

There is nothing moderate about Trump!

TerriBull Sun 04-Jan-26 13:04:38

I'm just wondering if there was the same worldwide condemnation of George Bush Snr. back in the late 80s when Noriega of Panama was captured and flown to the US, Subsequently went on trial. Similar circumstances, but for the life of me I can't remember the furore around it, I imagine there must have been one.

Galaxy Sun 04-Jan-26 13:07:29

Different time. No social media. People might have been outraged but it wasn't the first thing we saw when we woke up.

Casdon Sun 04-Jan-26 13:13:15

No, it was a completely different scenario, not a maverick action. If you watch Bush explaining the rationale, it’s clear it was done after years of failed attempts to resolve the situation. Oh for Trump to display one iota of Bush’s communication skills.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsIKRG0P6tk

TerriBull Sun 04-Jan-26 13:15:20

Just remembered another deposing which the US had their hands all over, Patrice Lumumba, first Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Congo to add to Allende of Chile and Mossedegh of Iran. They've been at it for years. Now an increasingly aggressive Russia and China are both eyeing up their own potential world dominance.

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 13:16:08

TerriBull

I'm just wondering if there was the same worldwide condemnation of George Bush Snr. back in the late 80s when Noriega of Panama was captured and flown to the US, Subsequently went on trial. Similar circumstances, but for the life of me I can't remember the furore around it, I imagine there must have been one.

Indeed, a furore, and massive US lies/corruption.

"https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=why+was+the+US%27s+involvment+with+Noreiga+controversial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

"The United States' involvement with Manuel Noriega was controversial primarily because the U.S. had a long, transactional relationship with him, overlooking his well-known criminal activities for decades until he was no longer a reliable asset for U.S. foreign policy goals. This history created several layers of controversy:

Prior Knowledge of Criminality: U.S. intelligence agencies, including the CIA (which George H.W. Bush once directed), were aware of Noriega's involvement in drug trafficking, money laundering, and human rights abuses from as early as the 1970s. Instead of prosecuting him, the U.S. paid him as a valuable intelligence asset during the Cold War to help combat Cuban and Soviet influence in Latin America and assist the Contras in Nicaragua This made the later "war on drugs" justification for his removal seem hypocritical to critics.

Shifting Justifications: The U.S. government shifted its public rationale for intervention from Cold War regional stability to a "war on drugs" and the restoration of democracy when it became politically expedient to do so. Critics argued the U.S. only turned against Noriega when his brutal behavior became an international embarrassment and he became an unreliable partner, potentially threatening the security of the Panama Canal."

And more.

Civilian Casualties

"Civilian Casualties and Due Process:

The invasion resulted in significant Panamanian civilian casualties and extensive property damage, raising ethical questions about the use of military force for what was essentially a law enforcement operation to capture a single individual

Furthermore, Noriega's trial in Miami was criticized because the court prohibited his defense from presenting evidence about his extensive work for the CIA and his payments from the U.S. government, leading some to characterize the trial as a "show trial" designed to conceal embarrassing details of past U.S. covert operations.

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 13:18:01

You'll need to enter this into the search engine to get the results

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=why+was+the+US%27s+involvment+with+Noreiga+controversial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 13:19:45

Ah, done.

A quite shocking and corrupt USA incident, and it is hardly surprising people are looking back at it and comparing - and it was the people of Panama that greatly suffered by the whole secret CIA business.
Goodness knows how the CIA is involved now.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:25:49

TerriBull
I think you’ll find this documentary film interesting.

www.netflix.com/gb/title/82145211?s=i&trkid=258593161&vlang=en&trg=cp

Another one is Bitter lake. The info in this documentary film blows your mind. At times the filming is odd but it’s the audio that blows your mind.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:27:24

Wyllow3
The CIA have their evil tenticles everywhere.

TerriBull Sun 04-Jan-26 13:28:56

Thanks Wyllow and petra, I'll get around to clicking on the links provided.

Fallingstar Sun 04-Jan-26 13:31:09

The thing is we can no longer safely perceive the US as the moral enforcer of what is right and good for peoples the world over. I think history paints a very different picture of what the US has actually been up to in the name of regime change.
Is simply empire building, and to call it anything else is rather naive.
Tbh Trump is only one in a long line of US empire builders, he is just less discrete and a whole lot more erratic/crazy.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:32:09

This true film is funny and very informative.
An American pilot running drugs into the us for the C.I.A.

www.imdb.com/title/tt3532216/mediaviewer/rm1861494784/?ref_=tt_ov_i
Tom Cruise plays the pilot.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:34:38

What would the great man think now. Nelson Mandela.

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1432458237806063

Fallingstar Sun 04-Jan-26 13:41:29

The US, and UK in this instance, were responsible for de-democratising Iran and putting in place a dictator - the Shah

“On 19 August 1953, Prime Minister of Iran Mohammad Mosaddegh was overthrown in a coup d'état orchestrated by the United States (CIA) and the United Kingdom (MI6). A key motive was to protect British oil interests in Iran after Mossadegh nationalized and refused to concede to western oil demands.[5][6][7] It was instigated by the United States (under the name TP-AJAX Project[8] or Operation Ajax) and the United Kingdom (under the name Operation Boot).[9][10][11][12]”

This most certainly led to the revolution in the late 1970s and the rise of the present regime.
One example of how empire building can turn bad.

Casdon Sun 04-Jan-26 15:31:48

Wyllow3

Ah, done.

A quite shocking and corrupt USA incident, and it is hardly surprising people are looking back at it and comparing - and it was the people of Panama that greatly suffered by the whole secret CIA business.
Goodness knows how the CIA is involved now.

There was nonetheless overwhelming support in the USA for Bush’s actions Wyllow3, and although there was criticism from some countries, it was not of the magnitude that is being expressed about the current action.