Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Starfire57 - you are obviously a MAGA supporter so no point us wasting time discussing this murder with you 😌

MG55

Starfire57 - you are obviously a MAGA supporter so no point us wasting time discussing this murder with you 😌

I'm not sure how I am, since I didn't vote for him but ok, if you say so.

I do support his efforts in cracking down on illegal immigration, though. So there's that.

I also believe in cooperating with police; I also do not subscribe to the lunacy of conspiracy theories out there either; we have not lost an ounce of our democracy here and will never because our system is set in such a way that it simply cannot. The checks and balances work, even if a bit slow at times.

Our constitution is pretty clear too; however, so many things the forefathers did not anticipate, so it has some flaws, but that is what amendments are for.

Problem is, in a democracy, majority rules. The minority of a particular election will always scream democracy is threatened, as a way to win the next election.

Starfire57

MayBee70

Starfire57

Allsorts

If that policeman was hurt, how could he walk away, no stumbling. To shoot someone at close range through the head is murder. What has America become?

Nobody said he was hurt. Idk, should he have to be run over to prove that she could have run him over? If someone is heading towards you at close range with a car, I would say that's the issue, not whether or not she succeeded.

It's a shame that people just don't get out of the car and cooperate. She may have been jailed for obstruction but be alive.

I am not saying the officer did the right thing. Nobody did if you ask me, her nor him.

Trump said he was badly hurt. If I was a woman in a car with men running at me with guns I wouldn’t get out of the car…my instinct would have been to stay in my car where I felt safe. And let’s not forget it was close to where George Floyd had been murdered by a policeman.

Nah. She realized she was going to get busted for obstruction, only letting cars by that were not full of ICE agents, and decided to escape. She was scared of jail, not guns.

And that justifies shooting her in the head?

MayBee70

Starfire57

MayBee70

Starfire57

Allsorts

If that policeman was hurt, how could he walk away, no stumbling. To shoot someone at close range through the head is murder. What has America become?

Nobody said he was hurt. Idk, should he have to be run over to prove that she could have run him over? If someone is heading towards you at close range with a car, I would say that's the issue, not whether or not she succeeded.

It's a shame that people just don't get out of the car and cooperate. She may have been jailed for obstruction but be alive.

I am not saying the officer did the right thing. Nobody did if you ask me, her nor him.

Trump said he was badly hurt. If I was a woman in a car with men running at me with guns I wouldn’t get out of the car…my instinct would have been to stay in my car where I felt safe. And let’s not forget it was close to where George Floyd had been murdered by a policeman.

Nah. She realized she was going to get busted for obstruction, only letting cars by that were not full of ICE agents, and decided to escape. She was scared of jail, not guns.

And that justifies shooting her in the head?

Um. No. Did I say that ? But as they say, play__ games, win__ prizes.

This will become a blame game in the media and among citizens, but to me it's more of a really, really unnecessary tragedy that people need to learn from.

But some people never learn I suppose.

The more I read, the more I see this as murder most foul.
So grateful I live in the UK despite its faults and difficulties.

Starfire57

MayBee70

Starfire57

MayBee70

Starfire57

Allsorts

If that policeman was hurt, how could he walk away, no stumbling. To shoot someone at close range through the head is murder. What has America become?

Nobody said he was hurt. Idk, should he have to be run over to prove that she could have run him over? If someone is heading towards you at close range with a car, I would say that's the issue, not whether or not she succeeded.

It's a shame that people just don't get out of the car and cooperate. She may have been jailed for obstruction but be alive.

I am not saying the officer did the right thing. Nobody did if you ask me, her nor him.

Trump said he was badly hurt. If I was a woman in a car with men running at me with guns I wouldn’t get out of the car…my instinct would have been to stay in my car where I felt safe. And let’s not forget it was close to where George Floyd had been murdered by a policeman.

Nah. She realized she was going to get busted for obstruction, only letting cars by that were not full of ICE agents, and decided to escape. She was scared of jail, not guns.

And that justifies shooting her in the head?

Um. No. Did I say that ? But as they say, play__ games, win__ prizes.

This will become a blame game in the media and among citizens, but to me it's more of a really, really unnecessary tragedy that people need to learn from.

But some people never learn I suppose.

What lessons are you expecting people to learn (including ICE agents)?

Cooperate. Be calm. Stop believing the calculated fear mongering that leads people to do things they should not. Follow the law.

Do not hand pick the laws you want to abide by and disobey the ones you don't. Do not obstruct law enforcement.

Do not think you are untouchable. Because, you are not.

Ice Agents? What lessons do you think? Should they simply take the chance of being attacked and un-alived?

Training is important. But , how do you think they can do a job they know people want to hurt them over?

I don't know how you would approach going to work everyday knowing someone out there wants to hurt you, confront you physically and verbally, obstruct you from doing your job. but I'd say that might make you more anxious and prone to mistakes, at the very least.

I don't picture many people actually having the perfect response in the face of being run over. It would have been great if he could have, but survival takes over most times.

Again, I don't actually think she meant to try and run him over; I think she was more focused on the guy next to her door, but I could be wrong, of course. However, the fact that she swerved to the right could be either the gunshot stopped her or she saw him and started to turn at the same time he shot....I choose to believe there was no intention on her part and his was gut reaction.

Tragic mistakes. But, entirely preventable with cooperation.

Starfire57

Cooperate. Be calm. Stop believing the calculated fear mongering that leads people to do things they should not. Follow the law.

Do not hand pick the laws you want to abide by and disobey the ones you don't. Do not obstruct law enforcement.

Do not think you are untouchable. Because, you are not.

Historically, would you have applied this to people faced by the Brownshirts?

I won’t do any nested quotes as it’s getting confusing but having seen the pic evidence from several angles it seems to me that the car either brushed the ICE officer or just went very close to him.The wife of the driver was taunting the officer saying ‘go get some lunch big boy’ and the other two officers were repeatedly telling the driver to get out of the car.The wife then opened the car door and said ‘drive baby drive!’ And you see the car lurch forward and that’s when the driver is shot through the windscreen.
In the US you do what armed authorities tell you.
Is it right? I don’t think so but we don’t have armed citizens or routinely armed officers and we have different laws here.
The whole thing is a tragedy that both ICE and citizens have to learn from.

I do know that at close range there was absolutely no excuse for shooting a person in the head. I don't excuse these women, I don't know the whole story, but if you feel threatened with armed police surrounding you would it be reasonable to get hyped up and in flight mode. Did these people have mental testhat issues. It seems in America it's kill first, you can't even say they question later as they seem untouchable. Is this what we want of society, no caring, life cheap and expendable. Children have been left motherless, what will their lives be. It us supposed to be a Christian country this is going against everything Chrisianity is. Immigration has not been handled properly anywhere, even here, we gave yo know whom we have, will they with and learn the language and love their adopted country. The fault lies with lazy and total mismanagement and sending all the wrong messages out. Treat others as you would be treated.
Trump has a nerve even meeting with religious leaders, he has no heart and I fear no common sense. He is the highest power in his eyes and the stupid enable him.

Sorry odd typos I did check then certain words changed.

An authoritarian president who has spent as much on the setting up of untrained thuggish agents as some small states spend on their entire military, and has sent a message “treat them rough” is not conducive to the population learning anything.

What the ordinary man in the street is seeing are out of control thugs who operate with impunity, the break down of law and order and their liberal democracy under threat.

Trump is re-writing history and as others have quoted Orwell, Americans are being told thst they can’t believe their own eyes.

Look at the WH pages and be astounded at the way the events of Jan 6th has been re- written - apparently it was all the fault of the police!

Apologists for this regime will rue the day that they never pushed back when they had the chance - I can see nothing but disaster ahead unless Trump is stopped.

I can’t see that democracy is under threat as citizens have the opportunity to vote differently in the next election.
The President has a lot of power, it isn’t anything like our system of a PM.On a local level ( State) citizens can let the powers that be know their feelings on a subject but they know they can’t change anything until the President changes.
It’s mixed feelings from what I can make out as some dislike what ICE are doing and some do like any illegal immigrants being removed.

Mamie

Starfire57

Cooperate. Be calm. Stop believing the calculated fear mongering that leads people to do things they should not. Follow the law.

Do not hand pick the laws you want to abide by and disobey the ones you don't. Do not obstruct law enforcement.

Do not think you are untouchable. Because, you are not.

Historically, would you have applied this to people faced by the Brownshirts?

No, not at all, because they were actually rounding up Jewish people for slavery and slaughtering them, putting them in gas chambers.

You are comparing mass murder and genocide to our countries lawmakers removing people who broke the law to get into the country, and many of them are criminals, murderers, human traffickers, drug dealers, etc.

Lord! Literally no comparison.

Thank you Starfire57 for answering a dubious question that bears no relation to 1930’s Germany.👍🏻

Starfire57

Cooperate. Be calm. Stop believing the calculated fear mongering that leads people to do things they should not. Follow the law.

Do not hand pick the laws you want to abide by and disobey the ones you don't. Do not obstruct law enforcement.

Do not think you are untouchable. Because, you are not.

Honestly, one can only assume you are a Trump supporter and we all know there is no swaying hardline Trump supporters.

Like Farage, this whole illegal immigration issue has been blown so far out of proportion and the so called “actions” or suggestions of actions are simply appalling.

There are so many other things more important, (in my opinion) to fix first, both sides of the pond:-

EG

Healthcare
Unemployment
Homelessness

And in the UK, our growing number of unemployed young people and those younger suffering untreated mental health conditions.

Let’s just be real, immigration of all kinds needs reviewing and systems clearly not working.

Let’s take a leaf from Australia maybe, great border control, a system to spot visa overstayers and those working on the incorrect visas, good use of officers to weed out black market employers and subsequently illegally employed workers, all dealt with efficiently, humanely and without out a shot being fired!

I’m not suggesting ignoring illegal immigration, but the ICE model is really not for any sane person!

Susieq62

The more I read, the more I see this as murder most foul.
So grateful I live in the UK despite its faults and difficulties.

👏👏👏

Oreo

I can’t see that democracy is under threat as citizens have the opportunity to vote differently in the next election.
The President has a lot of power, it isn’t anything like our system of a PM.On a local level ( State) citizens can let the powers that be know their feelings on a subject but they know they can’t change anything until the President changes.
It’s mixed feelings from what I can make out as some dislike what ICE are doing and some do like any illegal immigrants being removed.

Exactly. There is no threat to democracy here. The majority voted for this and that's what they are getting.

The states do not trump federal laws, but many laws are made by states in which the federal government cannot supersede, as per our constitution.

States have certain powers; the federal government has certain powers.

For example, all health regulations/issues are to be run by state and local governments, local being a county or city.

So when Covid happened, Trump handed that over to the states.... since this happened in his first term.

People here were livid......why isn't he handling it, why isn't he doing something??

Well, he did what his federal powers allowed.....he stopped all travel from China, where the first reports indicated that was the source of the virus. The federal government has the authority has the say on our borders and incoming threats.

He was called a xenophobe by Democrats for doing his job.

He had the federal government give money, supplies, other things states needed, but states still had the absolute authority over Covid and subsequent regulations, again, as per the law. That's why we saw some states mandate masks while others did not.

Alot of it was determined by how bad the threat was within a state itself.

Our president has some absolute powers as Commander in Chief, but other powers lie in our Congress, or our Supreme Court.

Immigration is a federal, not state issue. When some states declared themselves sanctuary states, they really had no authority but took it anyway.

Which didn't matter until illegal immigration got out of hand. Now the feds are coming to do their job. It is completely within our laws and our system that this is happening.

It's not fascism, or authoritarian rule, it's our laws and system.

Interesting though, President Biden mandated the experimental vaccine for Covid himself, which went against the powers of the states to determine such mandates and regulations concerning any health threats in our nation.

And Democrats didn't question it. It prevailed. People lost jobs, got blacklisted, had businesses shut down, could not travel, go to school, or attend certain events, etc because they feared this new tech which had not been used in this manner before and did not want to be forced.

There was talk of more severe punishments, and police enforcement, but luckily there was ALOT of pushback.

After Covid was over, after people lost their jobs, homes, had their business shut down, etc., then finally the whole thing went to the Supreme Court and the court found that what Biden did was not within his power and was unconstitutional.

Not at all within his power. Yet he did it anyway,.

Thanks Starfire57 that’s interesting as most of us don’t know all the ins and outs of the American system and what States can do or not do.

So Starfire is an anti vacc’er too. That figures….

Starfire you have made your views known clearly and at great length. We are all entitled to our opinions. Fortunately there are people on this forum who are more sensible. I can see now how Trump and his ilk bulldozer their way into power.

Oreo

Thanks Starfire57 that’s interesting as most of us don’t know all the ins and outs of the American system and what States can do or not do.

You are welcome. It is kinda complicated, I even lose track of who has what authority on many issues. Sometimes I have to look it up. All the upper and lower courts, I have no clue on those, but those also play a part and do effect what, for example, a governor can do or even what the President can do.

Depends on what reports you believe. Many are saying she was a paid Left wing agitator who had been obstructing the officials repeatedly.

MayBee70

So Starfire is an anti vacc’er too. That figures….

I've had all my vaccines, so no not antivaxxer. I just didn't bother with the Covid vaccine....too new, no long term trials on effectiveness or side effects.

Didn't want to be a Guinea pig.

Well, turns out, it never stopped the spread.

Supposedly then, they decided it made symptoms better instead. But since there were so many mild or asymptomatic cases reported in the beginning anyway, before the vaccines, I figure, that claim is questionable to say the least.

They even changed the definition of a vaccine for it. So much money was made. Just have to wonder.

But, I do believe in most vaccines, the old tech ones that actually provide immunity, thus the name immunizations....