Burqa or niqab- why can’t people get it right?

As I said, pedantics.

An abnormal spike in anti-Muslim abuse aimed at women wearing the hijab and niqab has been recorded by the government-backed hate crime monitoring group Tell Mama.

It is concerning that women are attacked for their mode of dress, particularly when it seems that one of the reasons for wearing the niqab and burka is to preserve the modesty of wearer and dissuade attention of males, when in actual fact it makes them more obvious. Statistically it is a minority of Muslim women who choose to veil their faces and I think to ban the niqab and burka would be very counter productive.

Johnson aims to normalise rudeness to Muslims – the easiest hate targets following Islamist terror attacks. In every society, racism is only dormant for as long as it stays socially unacceptable, but it’s a virus easily released by any contemptible politician willing to stoop so low.

So its not the same as somebody being asked to remove a crash helmet, or a sign banning people wearing hoodies or pedantics.

I have worked with many Muslims and most agree that the various forms of garments that completely shroud and veil the female figure are a cultural requirement, not a religious one. The Qu'ran states that both men and women should dress decently.

Like the Bible, the Qu'ran is open to interpretation, so viewpoints differ as to what dressing decently actually means. During the pilgrimage to Mecca women must not be veiled, but may cover their bodies as much as they want.

Some Muslim women and girls choose for religious reasons to wear a headscarf, a burqa or a niqab, but some of the women I know who do so, admit that they do so because their parents, mothers-in-law or husbands want them to do so, and are agreeing for the sake of peace at home. Obviously, a ban on the more enveloping forms of dress, helps these women.

If I travel to Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the united Emirates or Pakistan, I would naturally wear long sleeved shirts and a head-scarf out of respect for the prevailing opinion in these countries.

So why should we not require women not to walk around completely hidden behind face veils in our society?

This idea that mother in law or husband is pulling the strings is such a cliche.

I have spoken to many women who stress, very clearly ,that it is their choice to wear what they choose.

grandtante and oldbatty

You seem to have encountered different groups of women.

I would think that both reasons are valid - choice and pressure.
There are also groups of Muslim women who prefer to wear Western dress - albeit modest, much like many of us who are not Muslim.

Perhaps valid is the wrong word - perhaps 'relevant to their circumstances' would be more appropriate.

exactly, it is a nuanced situation. It is unwise of any of us to make assumptions.

I don't think banning certain clothing will help these women. Many will simply be restricted more in being permitted to go out. I read an article recently about Jewish women being required to cover up more. Cant remember which country. So its not just Muslims. What gives men the right??!!

Well, I have to confess that I had to look up the various definitions, and I have Muslim friends and acquaintances, some of whom adopt modest dress, and others who don’t. I don’t see it as a problem, unless women feel coerced to dress in a certain way. Let’s not forget, too, that Christian women of certain sects also wear head coverings, and some Jewish women wear sheitels or wigs.

Long ago I read that the originator of this religion didn't like people looking and commenting on his young wives so decided that they should go hidden from view. I think it was something Geraldine Brooks researched while her husband was working in the middle East.im happy to be corrected.

I have friends who are Muslim and cover their heads. I have no problem with that but it is much more common now

Chewbacca, you state that YOU don’t like them,do you have to to? We are all allowed to like or dislike but everyone to their own opinion. Maybe you could direct your energy to something that is important.

I don't like the full face coverings as they could easily be a security risk. who knows who is under one of those. Here in Australia there are signs at the entrance to every bank saying motorcycle helmets must be removed due to security concerns but head/ whole face coverings are fine because it would be racist to ask they be removed. I also question the ability of someone driving while wearing these garments to have unimpeded vision.

Whatever they are called I have no idea how they get the blooming things to stay on!

I agree SueH49 It's also difficult to interact fully with someone whose face is obscured.

Its a form of dress within a patriarchal society. It’s about control. (mostly)

I’ve a few lady friends who are Muslim. Working as hospital doctors. Conversations with them were enlightening.

Burqa or niqab- why can’t people get it right?

I know this is an old thread, but I'd still like to answer the OP, giving my own reason:

When it comes to clothing in general, I have little interest.
I glaze over when people start talking about different styles of shoes, skirts, hats, scarves etc.
You might as well be talking a foreign language (though I do speak a couple of those!)
My own clothes shopping is done on a see, like, try-on basis, without any need for 'detailed' vocabulary.

This will probably sound unbelievable to some of you, but like a very large number of people who have never lived in or near towns or cities, I have rarely, if ever, seen anyone wearing any visible form of Muslim clothing within my wider community (not that this occurred to me until now, while writing this post). Only on passers-by when I have cause to visit a town.

If I had lived in a more urban area in recent years, I am guessing that I would have had friends or acquaintances who wore these things, and I would probably have come to know the words in question through everyday conversation.

These things mean that my only 'knowledge' of words like burka (actually, I do know this one as I remember seeing and being shocked by pictures in the papers of women in Afghanistan wearing them, many years ago) , niqab or hijab is what I see or hear via the media, and if they get it wrong, then I and others like me have little hope of getting it right!

This thread was started by me because BJ was the one who got it ‘wrong’. Context is everything. However if anyone is actually going to give an opinion on what they think of either garment they should know the difference before they do as they are absolutely fundamentally different and give rise to very different issues. BJ btw was just being his pathetic self at the time.

Actually I should start checking the date of the first post! Until MamaCaz pointed it out, I wasn’t aware you’d started it last August maryeliza

On the other hand I don’t suppose it matters if people still feel like contributing!

One comment from a friend from the Lebanon always stuck in my mind regarding burqas. She told me that the part that covers the head is very tight to the scalp. That way the man can always know where the woman is looking as she has to turn her head fully to the direction she wants to look. Controlling behaviour.

I don't understand the comment about how " they" get them to stay on. Gravity, I presume .
The burqa is like a coat in some respects, you put it on over your clothes. Once you see somebody coming home and hanging it on a clothes stand in the hall and offering you a coffee, it demystifies the whole thing.

A niqab is kept in place with safety pins.

I don't think I ever remember anyone, in all the 72 years of my life, objecting to the way nuns dressed and yet there's a great similarity between the old habit (which has died hard nowadays) and the various styles of Islamic dress.
On the contrary, they were respected.

If anyone is still interested, there's are some neat little graphics on this site about various Islamic styles.
www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241

Only one of my Muslim friends chooses to wear hijab.

Going slightly further back, it's interesting to see the Pit Brow Lassies, with their covered heads.

I think a Burqua just covers the head....which is fine. My mum used to cover head when she went to church, which is almost the same thing.
But a Niqab covers the entire body, with slits for the eyes. That's a bit intimidating - one never knows what's hidden under those clothes.
I suppose it's just like the Catholic nuns..their 'habits' as they are called, cover the whole body, so why pick on the muslims? I'm a Catholic by the way .