Support for family members cut out of loved ones lives 5

this is supposed to be a support group not a " knock down and pick apart the words or phrases people say day." Love the way you put that Rhinestone

You said: I want to always improve myself and I always question if I did the right thing. ... I'm willing to see my faults. I've got to say, I think this is essential for a contented & constructive life! The general tone of this thread - I'm not picking out specifics - comes over as somewhat of a mutual pity party at times, and there is fierce resentment of others' faults with seemingly little self-reflection. I suppose I wanted to try and prompt a little more balance, but ... well, I know when I'm beaten

Unfortunately, Garliccake , you come across as patronising and judgemental.

Maybe you didn't mean to, but you did. And that makes people resentful as evidenced by some of the responses to your posts.

So yes, you probably are beaten.

Rosy glow that is very well put I studied psychology at evening classes and I enjoyed it and did well brag brag?As there aren't definite answers just opinions and studies it is fascinating subject.

Interestingly garlic has not answered your questions about her reasons for her sudden input on this thread, it certainly isn't supportive imo

Good see friendly poster,rhinestone have felt rather overwhelmed.

However take note rhinestone and all as my ed has read my posts it clearly is very easy for anyone to access this forum and best kept discrete now ed has realised I was finding out her progress on support group so has stopped posting.

The support forum I go on is totally closed and private so is easy to forget thus certainly isn't.

Jenty admire you for always keeping door open for ed I would say the same but of course it could never be possible to wipe out damage of 7 years of heartache,
The late Denise robins agony aunt said it is never too late to try make amends and the saddest letters sne received were from girls whose mothers had died and it was too late very true,

Fairydol2030 could t have put that better myself well done

Before reading further posts, Celeb, thank you for filling me in further on what did and didn't happen. My heart aches for you and yours, as ever.

Also, I see that I missed the post where you said you don't think SIL is controlling ED. So then, I guess, that means you feel she CO family of her own volition. Well, I'm glad you don't feel she's being controlled, but, of course, this is sad in its own way.

Just had a thought though... if she's reading your posts and you're reading hers (if you're sure they're hers, that is), then doesn't that mean you both still care about each other? Maybe you're reading mostly to see how she is, but that's cuz you love and care about her. Maybe she's reading here, just to see what you're saying about her, but, IMHO, that means she still cares about what you think/say and so forth. You both may have thought you had reached a point of detachment, but maybe not entirely, after all?

So and I'm saying this to both of you, Celeb and Celeb's ED (in case you're reading this), maybe this is a moment in which you can reach out to each other, whether on FB or each through your posts on your own support group? Perhaps you can tell each other you still love each other (cuz I'm sure you do). And maybe ED could say what she needs from her EM to begin to heal the rift and Celeb could say whether or not she can fulfill that wish or not?

Again, just to be clear, I'm NOT suggesting that either of you post in the other's group. I'm saying you each could comment in your own group cuz you're each reading each others' anyway or else on FB. f

Or maybe I'm being ridiculous?

Oops! Sorry for the extra lower case "f" there. Typo.

Aagh wendysue how kind and caring you are.

If my daughter reads this she knows I will always love her and I would do anything I possibly could to heal rift.

I also hope and pray she is lots better

And yes, I know, celeb that you already said you would always care about ED, but maybe on more time without all the ifs, ands, & buts, even though I understand them? And I know you said you and DH need to stop trying, but it just seems to me this is a new opportunity, maybe a "golden" one... but I suppose you've thought that before, only to find you were wrong (sigh).

IMO, Garlic has a point when she says that the true reasons for the CO may be in ED's "vile" comments and so on. But IMO, too, ED needs to realize that saying things that way isn't likely to get results. Hopefully, one day, she can say it again in a calmer, more reasonable way. But maybe it's too late... IDK...

I cannot begin to imagine how it must have felt for Celeb and her DH to learn that their ED nearly died. You would think wouldn't you, that if there was anything, anything at all that could cut through the years of estrangement, in Celeb's case more than 7 years, that would be it, but no.

Despite having reached out to her so many times, with cards, letters and small gifts for her and the children and getting absolutely nothing in return, they tried to be there for her again and again she's failed to respond. Celeb has expressed her anger and I wouldn't be surprised if she's angry because her ED could have died before they'd even found out she was ill; she's angry because having tried so hard for so long, even in this potentially life threatening situation their ED still fails to respond, she's angry because her ED's f.i.l. treated them so coldly and I wouldn't mind betting that what she's angry about the most is that she couldn't and can't be there for the D she loves. If I'm wrong Celeb I know you'll tell me so.

So before throwing our hands up in horror, picking her posts apart and judging her, we should try and understand what a terrible time she and her DH have had.

I'm sure we can all remember a time when our children were small, we lost sight of them, didn't know where they'd got to because we took our eyes off them, just for a few seconds. That awful sick feeling that they'd gone, that we'd lost them. Then the huge wave of relief when 'thank goodness, there they are'. But, despite our relief and joy that they're there, we'rebecause for that, even briefest of moments, we were terrified and as well as hugging and kissing them, we're telling them off for disappearing in the first place.

Well that's what it's like everyday for the parents cut out of their AC's lives, only we don't get to experience the relief and joy at their return, just that awful sick feeling because they have gone and we have lost them.

I fail to see how referring to this supportive thread as "somewhat of a mutual pity party at times" could be regarded as "trying to prompt a little more balance" GarlicCake but no matter, we've had that sort of comment before and worse come to that but we remain strong and supportive of one another because we stand together, shoulder to shoulder; we won't be beaten.

Smileless, Celeb. (Flowers)

Oops, that should be

Oh Smilless you have summed it up so very well. Thanks you are a poppett and so very understanding.

We just been folk dancing and gosh what a fun evening not been for ages what with knee holidays etc forgotten how much we enjoy it.

We have been through unimaginable hurt and I must admit the crass thoughtless comments that came from some people on here really don't help at all?
There is t much greater pain than knowing ed nearly died and to be told I. Such an Unfeeling callous way by ed f I law. Eve. Worse as you say to reach out only to be totally rejected again.

As you say Smilelss we been here before and we are never beaten ??

Sorry wendysue not sure what you meant about ifs and buts.
I have already written so many letters to ed and a year ago sent card saying if I hurt or upset her in any way I apologise unreservedly.

I have to accept she no longer wants a mum or dad, or brother or aunt or godparents in ner life.

We have to live with that pain until we die. It has affected our health enormously.
As you know Smilless you have stress,attacks and feeling unable to breathe, I have horrid times at night when I really can't bear the pain. I have it get up a d dear husband makes me tea.

The photo of me with our dear first Grandaughter I have in my bedroom is sometimes to painful to look at, it was a wonderful day when she was born and just 9 months later we were so cruelly discarded.

I would not wish that pain on anyone what I meant to say to ed having 3 girls of her own can she imagine the pain we go through ?

I have been reading this thread and the one on MN. I am very sad. Perhaps there are grans who lack insight-perhaps I lack insight but I genuinely was not told why I was cut out
. I have some hypotheses about what its all about and I've offered to try joint counselling and tried to apologise but I don't think my S reads anything I send-. I have decided to stop trying if he really feels happier, I want happiness for him, but it has been at great cost to me.

At first the shock and pain is so great that its hard not to react badly.

I am saddened by the lack of empathy on mumsnet but I guess some people have had a really difficult time with their parents.

I hated the "Oh look what they're saying now-they're unhinged" comments. It sounded gleeful.

I don't see that people on here appear to hate their adult children but anger is part of grief and its difficult not to feel anger at some point whilst still loving the AC.

I was also very upset to read that expressing love for our grandchildren is bizarre-like expressing love for random kids in the street. Many grans have been closely involved with the grandchildren and love them almost as much as their own kids. That doesn't mean we think we have more importance than their parents who are the most important people to them.

All I can think is that hurt people hurt- and that can apply to both AC and their parents.
The problem with forums is that people project and think that other situations, other parents, other kids are the same as their own. The them and us attitude is so upsetting.

Some people here clearly have AC who are in relationships with very controlling people who see their original family as a threat, others have had an ex-spouse turn the kids against them. Many are parents who have done their best but made bad mistakes. There may be a few over involved narcissists but most people like that wouldn't bother with a support thread because they wouldn't be hurting and grieving.

Just read garlic cake post ref character assassinations and vile comments,

In my case ed wrote these I. A letter from a solicitor to use as an excuse,why we could t see our Grandaughter anymore. It wasn't a valid reason bringing up a row we had 15 years ago and the fact I had suffered depression. It was deeply offensive and I guess it was disturbing that ed could stoop to such low level.

This didn't fit in with ed insistence on myndriving 80 mile round trip on my own to see her so that I didn't have to depend on her dad to drive me, I got used to the drive and I thought we had some lovely days together.

However there is no point In Dragging. All the hurt up but it is pretty distressing to be betrayed in such a horrid way but a daughter I loved so dearly and tried so hard to support in every way,

???Smilelss and. Fairly doll and rhinestone ????

Oops! Celeb, I see I was posting my last comment at about the same time you were posting in reply to me. So I suggested doing what you had actually already done - simply letting ED know you still love her. (Never mind what I said about "ifs and buts" cuz your reply to me didn't have any.) I hope ED does see what you posted and that it touches her heart.

"I would not wish that pain on anyone what I meant to say to ed having 3 girls of her own can she imagine the pain we go through ?"

I was just thinking when I saw this that I suspect some of the EPs who come on here and speak about possible karma, are just voicing their frustration and trying to get their EAC to empathize with them a little/to try to get EAC consider how they would feel in the same shoes. Could be some are truly vengeful, but, my guess is that like you, celeb, this is just another way for many to express their pain and hope others, including maybe EAC, will understand.

Smileless, your "lost child" analogy brought tears to my eyes...

Hello, Grannieanonymous! I don't know if you're new here or a long time member cuz I'm fairly new here, myself. Fortunately for me, I'm not estranged from my AC, but as I've said before, "there but for fortune..." So I may not totally get the dynamic between you and S, but if he's not responding to your emails or letters (whatever it is you're sending), then I think you're wise to stop trying for now. Not just cuz maybe he's "happier" this way (actually, I bet he's hurting, too), but to give him some space to "cool down" (if he's angry at something) and mull this situation over. Hopefully, after a while, he'll be ready to reach out again. My heart aches for you... (((Hugs)))

WendysueI'm the one who said I understood what Celeb meant and I made the comment about Karma. I also said we are human and we want our children to know the pain we are in. I also said it wasn't right to want them to have the same pain but that it was a human feeling to be angry and feel that way. People can feel the way they want and should not be judged by it. There is no right or wrong in feelings.

"People can feel the way they want and should not be judged by it"

I'm not sure it's always even a matter of "want." Sometimes, IMO, people feel a certain way, even though they don't want to. No one wants to feel pain or anger or even vengeance, I'm sure. In fact, to me, that's the reason I'd be wary of judging feelings.

"There is no right or wrong in feelings."

Agreed.

Rhinestone yum were very understanding I do t think it is questions of vengefulness it is more shock that ed has no real empathy or understanding of the total misery she has wreaked on her parents.

Or even worse she has and does t care that is why I said albeit in anger that how would she feel if one of her daughters did this to her, a lot of friends have mentioned this.

It has also been said that e grandchildren will learn it is ok to cut out family members and repeat the syndrome.

A very good supportive friend also mentioned karma ref ed illness.
I would never ever wish illness on ed. I just,pray she makes full recovery and we'd love to have been able to help.

So many posts! not read them all yet!
Rosyglow very well said
Celebgran As smileless has said, on her very good post, we understand your angry at your estD, so don't worry about the nasty comments on here , our support page, I could cry at what's been done to it and feel, as I have before, that I don't want to come on here anymore, as the people are so vicious! on a subject they know little about. C we know your upper most feeling for your D is Love.
Garliccake their was no conversation with me and my nasty s.i.l [or D] just a very aggressive "F* OFF" with his fist thrown in my face for good measure! Two days before, I kissed my D&GC goodbye, never realising that this would be the last time I'd do that
Rhinesstone good posts & Jenty
Wendysue very touching post, if only
Hope your counting the flowers * Anya* as you seem to like to do. Don't worry there wont be any for you.
I don't have time [or inclination] to read MN posts, so bit in the dark there.

I agree that people can't control how they feel-they can only control how they act.

Of course no-one actually wishes harm on their AC but sometimes when the lack of understanding is as great as it was on the MN thread its only human to think that if this ever happened to them they would understand. No-one actually wants it to happen.

I felt like some posters on MN were picking apart threads on here and twisting the words.

WendySue-thanks for your kind words-its been several months now since I e-mailed.

Reading back too,particularly on MN, advice is handed out in most strident terms. If an AC is wavering about breaking contact they are strongly encouraged to do so by a few vociferous posters and assumptions are made on little evidence that the parent is an abusive narcissist.
Posters can be challenged in the strongest terms "Why are you still talking to these people!"

I think it does have some influence.

Having said that I do acknowledge that there are some situations where it would be the only thing to do .

Its a case of what I read upthread here-its dangerous to give out psychological advice without knowing the people involved and just going by what they say on the internet.

Grannieanonymous Thank you for your input and sorry for the loss of your DS through estrangement My s.i.l & his mother are top-of-the-tree narcissists, without doubt, and I was seen as a threat, jealousy being the upper most emotion from them.

If you have never felt the pain of estrangement from your child, how can anyone comment. You can have empathy for the situation and be sympathetic but you cannot fully understand how it makes you feel. You feel helpless, worthless and at times a total failure, it shakes you to your sole. At times you feel as if you really cannot carry on and yes sometimes you do get a flash of anger, it's the injustice of it all. I cannot see how anyone of us would want our grandchildren in our lives, just to get back at their mother, that is ridiculous, we just miss them. Your child, whatever age they are, is part of you and you will always feel the loss. Just because you distance your self because of constant knock backs and rebuffs, you only do that to preserve your sanity in a situation you cannot alter.

Evening ladies. I would have come in earlier only my laptop decided to upgrade to Windows 10, don't know why, I didn't ask it tooanyway it seemed to take agesand being as you all know a technophobe, I was dreading things being changed so I wouldn't know what I was doing, but so far so good.

It was good to read your posts Grannieanymous. You made some excellent points and now you've found us I hope you'll stay. Sadly, we do get some negative comments from time to time but we always manage to weather the storm.

I know you find it upsetting Yogagirl, but a thread that offers support for people cut out of loved ones lives that didn't have you as a regular poster wouldn't be half as good as this one is.

TBH the negative remarks don't upset me, when I think what Mr. S. and I and all of you have been through and continue to go through, well anything out of order on this thread pales into insignificance, which is where it belongs. That said, they do make me and never having been someone whose backwards at coming forward, I always say what I think. Strange isn't it, when we disagree we're accused of being self pitying, naval gazing etc etc, it never occurs to the posters that when we disagree, we do so because we're entitled to our opinion, as are they of course, but as I've said more times than I care to remember, it isn't necessarily what you say, it's how you say it.

Mr. S. was telling me before he went out there was a story in one of the newspapers today about a football player who plays for England, whose getting married on Saturday (can't remember his name). He hasn't had any contact with his family for 18 months, as his grandfather put it 'since he met that woman', none of them will be at the wedding but her family is heavily involved; it's all about them: sound familiar?

Now ladies, I know you crossed everything for me last week for our viewing, well we have another one tomorrow at 6.00pm. They want to buy in this village, have sold their house and are unable to attend the open house on Saturday ..... so..... please cross everything for me again tomorrow.

for you all and I just want to say "We are family, I've got all my sisters in me".

Lucky legs you are so right. However when this is pointed out as I did to Jainsworth we get this is public forum anyone can comment, strange they only come out of woodwork if they sniff trouble ?

I too felt very sad and reluctant to carry on here yogagirl then rhinestone and luckylegs, not to mention wendysue and their truly helpful posts reassured me.

I don't really have clue as jingles mentioned why we been invaded by mumsnet group ie other thread, not sure what started it as I was away and to be honest I am not very interested.

Excellent poet smiless and yes we live to see another day as they say.

We have weather worse and the supprt we give each other is marvellous.

Oh do hope the viewing goes well keep fingers crossed Smilelss.

Luckylegs don't you find it interesting how people lucky enough not to be estranged are so very quick to judge and give out meaningless advice when they don't have a damn clue what they are talking about.

Well another busy day, acquacise, and one of my favourite client s for pedicure this afternoon.?.

Of out try new pub for lunch tomorrow life pretty good really.

Even better my d son stepchildren have been granted British citizenship relief all round,
Friday my dear twin brother g daughter visiting with her lovley mum good week??