Adult children

"My adult children often borrow money..."

Another poster said this might be the problem IF they are slow to pay you back. I think this could be it, particularly IF you or dh brings it up when you see them. Debts may have to be settled before you can truly enjoy time together. Or you and dh may need to decide to treat the money given as "gifts," and, in the future, either give as a gift or just say you don't have it - no loaning.

Blue, I think it's great that you "socialize as you choose." But then please understand that your ac are likely to follow that example.

NanaMacGeek, obviously, your ac missed you last Xmas and want to be with you this year. It's nice that they feel this way, but, imo, they should have arranged for one of their families to host and invite you - not throw it all on you and dh. I'm sorry you didn't just open up and tell them that you don't feel well enough to do that. It's probably too late for this year, but I hope you'll say that in 2018. You could also tell them that you would love to spend the time with them and their families at one of their houses, if possible. If none of them thinks they can handle that, then you'll be free to go on holiday again. Please cherish the fact that your ac and families want to celebrate Xmas with you, but don't let them push all the work onto you at the same time.

No-one seems to have any sense of obligation to their parents any more. I would have loved to have Christmas on our own when the DC were young but as we knew the grandparents would be hurt we always saw one set over Christmas and the other at New Year and vice versa the next year. If our children can't be bothered to visit at Christmas God help us when we start losing our faculties and need care.

I'm a mum, not a Gran, but I enjoy this site and thought I would just say that there's recently been a thread on MN about who people love most (yes, I know): their spouses or their kids. Most parents strongly favour their kids in spite of saying they are happy with their partners. Yet seeing this thread makes me realise that your kids grow up and - no doubt rightly - someone else becomes more important to them than their mum and dad. Which is of course exactly how it should be. But it does make me think that perhaps partners are, in the final reckoning, the ones who should come first as they're the ones who hopefully will be with you long after the kids have gone!

Many thanks for all your replies - I didn't expect to receive so many! I will try to answer. For those who I haven't replied to directly, I have read your replies and taken your thoughts on board.

Starlady - DD has had many issues over the in-laws, and despite trying to lay down ground rules, and it working for a few days, it just goes back to the way it was before. And of course we get sidelined in the process, as their plans are more important than DD'S or ours.

Radicalnan - the money situation is not an issue whereby they only come when they want to lend money. Bank transfers are so easy to do, and a quick message to me is all it takes. But we have decided not to lend anymore.

Starbird - son said he would set up a standing order but never did/does.

Harrigran - I get you completely when you say don't have expectations. But then it does make me feel like we don't matter - it is a hard 'mantra' to have and practice!

Friday - I can see how my reply was contradictory. We might not see/hear from them for a while but when they do get in touch/visit, it is short notice and we have to take the opportunity to see them, or go without. As for DS and his girlfriends baby, it is her baby and not son's so that in itself is a minefield as we do not want to be 'pushy' with her baby, but yet do not wish to make her feel any less valued. There is not that connection, with the baby, I meant.

Time will tell what happens! But your replies are very welcome and I enjoyed reading all your experiences too. You have all made me feel very welcome and have given good advice. I was reluctant to post, but I am glad I did now, Thank You!

Thanks Foxygran - much appreciated?

I have such sympathy for you. At the moment I am watching things gradually slip away ...more and more arrangements are cancelled with excuses, usually about my DILs family. Anything we suggest is met with "Maybe" and a shrug, then silence. If I ask about the suggested date something else has always been arranged. Firework trips are arranged with her family, picnics, Nativity Play visits, Christmas Light trips, Lunches out, Holidays, Big get togethers...and so on. Her family are unwilling to help with childcare , even an evening of babysitting. We look after the grandchildren one day a week so at the moment we are still "useful"!! We do enjoy our days with the grandchildren. They also come and stay a couple of times a year. But once that is no longer needed I think I know what will probably happen. It is hard!

I too am watching my family slip away. In one case a DIL problem [she put a vile MIL post online which she refuses to apologise for, now won't see me, won't talk to me...cos I wasn't supposed to see it]. Me and my son cannot solve this despite him trying, so he is keeping the peace there and I see him rarely now....also now eldest grandson is old enough to babysit the youngest so I am not needed now for school pickups or to babysit which I always did when asked.

Other son and DIL are so busy and with 2 small children I see them only when I can be fitted in around their social lives...not often. In both cases the DIL's family come first, always, and I am now more alone than ever before. I was a single parent for most of their lives, with good relationships with them but it has gradually changed, which I expect it to do, but didn't expect to feel so heartbroken and left out. I have always done the best for them, given them both amounts of money for house deposits/wedding etc. I've always bitten my tongue, not interfered, I'm not pushy, always tried to help and fitted in with them. I'm lonely, coming to terms with the recent changes, adjusting and having to switch off for my self preservation. I'll get there but it's been tough.

I think you'll have to adapt to the changes in your family and the answer could be to be flexible, but independent.

Another vote from me for the open house day with a buffet. This doesn't just happen with adult children, it happens with adult siblings too, as my friend discovered after hosting her large, but immediate family on Boxing Day for years. As her nieces and nephews got older, they wanted to do their own things and more often than not needed a lift from parents. The open house buffet solved the problem with being messed around with requests to change the date or apologies for not being able to come. Now they pop in if they can and stay as long as they are able or want - some even come back again with other(s) in tow!

Give plenty of notice and don't change the date unless absolutely necessary i.e. not because one of your children can't be there. Do this a couple of times a year and invite other people too such as friends and other family. It will take some of the pressure off your DC that they might be feeling about keeping in touch. It also means that the whole family doesn't have to be there. My friend always makes sure there's plenty to drink too and that makes it feel like a bit of a party. She does it in August too and puts out plenty of seats in the garden if the weather is nice.

The main problem with the open house buffet is the amount of work that can be involved preparing the food. My friend loves to cook, but I would buy as much as possible! An alternative solution could be hosting Sunday lunch on a set Sunday in the month e.g. the first Sunday. Make it an open invitation and provide enough food for all of them to attend, then freeze leftovers and eat them later. If you can afford it, you could do the Sunday lunch at restaurant. They might like the idea of someone else providing a meal for the whole family, but the key is not to try to tie them down with a commitment. Don't give them the impression that you are 'needy' or resentful (hard I know).

It's up to you whether or not you lend/give them money, but at the moment it sounds like that adds to the resentment you're feeling. If you do decide to continue doing it and the money is supposed to be a loan, perhaps you should make sure arrangements are made to be repaid before handing over the money. I would also keep track of the amount of money lent/given to each DC and hint that you do this. Same goes for looking after the GC, but I would do it if you you can. However, I wouldn't drop everything to do it unless it really is an emergency. Canceling arrangements can cause problems in other ways. Your DC need to learn to respect the fact that you have your own life. This might be hard though if you're desperate to see the GC. You need to be the judge of your situation.

Assuming the girlfriends live with your sons, I would try to make more of an effort to make friends with them and don't treat the other child as different to your grandchildren. This probably means directly communicating with them instead of going through your sons.

Finally (didn't realise how much I would type! ), I would suggest to your DD that the next time her inlaws cause a problem by visiting at a bad time, that she comes over to you as arranged (with or without the DGC), and leaves her DH to look after the inlaws. If he is out, tell her to come over to you on her own and leave the DCG in their care. Alternatively, she needs to agree a new time with her DH for her to meet up with you and him to look after the DGC. Maybe then he'll start tackling the problem.

I'm sure all the replies on this thread have will give you some ideas of what you can try. Best of luck.

I only had this situation with one of my d.i.ls but my son made sure he came round regularly. Now they are divorced and things are much better as the lady he is now with is entirely different. My other 3 sons and my daughter are very close and ring or visit regularly. I also have a great relationship with most of my grandchildren, particularly the eldest one who used me as a sounding board when he was thinking of giving up his job on the oil rigs and going to university. He got his degree and is now living in Japan but still keeps in regular touch through viber.

The suggestion that the OP should do a buffet is not very practical unless she was to have an idea of how many people were going to turn up. Everyone I know does far too much food for a buffet, even when they know how many are likely to attend.

My solution for future Christmases would be to arrange to go away, either in the UK or abroad. I would love to go away and would do so if I ever felt my children were stressing about who had to have me, but it seems things haven't got to that stage yet.

Aslemma one the points of the buffet or Sunday lunch at home is being prepared to deal with left over food. You base the numbers on the the adult children and their families coming, but make a judgement on the feedback you're getting before hand. It could be worth it as a means of seeing her family.

So sorry about DD's problems with her ils, bella! Imo, she needs to be firmer with them and not let things slide back to where they were. ("I told you, from now on, I'm keeping my plans with my own parents, and you agreed to respect that, remember?"). But I guess she'll have to come to that on her own.

I think the idea of planning a vacation at Xmas is a good one. Then you won't feel so alone, and your ac can't spring any last minute visits on you because your plans will be set.

I also like the idea of
having an open house buffet on an alternate date. Invite others besides your ac and families, so you're not left alone if none of them show. If it seems like too much work, have it catered (if affordable). And I wouldn't worry about getting "too much" food. I would order as much as I'd need if everybody came and then freeze the leftovers or send people home with some if they would like.

If time and finances permit, you could actually do both of those. They both may become traditions you love.

Nana02, I feel for you. Good that you get to babysit though. Is it possible that ds and dil think they're balancing things by doing family visits with her foo while having you babysit and sending the gc to stay with you sometimes? Iows, maybe they think this way the kids get to know each set of gps, albeit in different ways?

Have you asked ds if there's a reason they never make plans with you and dh as a family? What did he say?

Bluebird, I feel for you, too. Sounds as if your angry dil is embarrassed but trying to put the blame on you. So sorry about that!

Of course, your relationship with their kids was bound to change as they got older, no matter how things were between you and dil.

Sorry that the dils' foos seem to always "come first." That must hurt. Does that mean you generally see them on alternate dates (e.g.Boxing Day instead of Xmas or the weekend before or after Mothering Sunday?) or that they, sometimes, skip you altogether? If it's the latter, have you tried arranging alternate dates? Are you willing to be flexible about the day and time?

Bravo to you for "coming to terms with the recent changes!" I hope that includes spending more time with friends,pursuing a hobby or 2, maybe doing some volunteer work and maybe some traveling. Please fill your time up with some activities you enjoy. It won't make things perfect, but it's bound to help.

It seems to me that all your children are behaving they way you do i.e being passive and waiting for other people to make the arrangements/decisions. Is this something they learned from you when growing up? I would suggest being a little more assertive especially your poor DD. How about you coming up with a list of times and dates and seeing which they can individually make and then pick the most popular time they can all come. Then make it absolutely clear that that is when you are expecting them and you will be cooking/catering for them in some way. I hope it all goes well.

Our AC tend to sometimes leave things to the last minute, not like myself and DH at all. We like to plan things, not too strictly, but have flexibility for the unexpected or unforeseen, no matter whether it is with other people or when doing/having jobs done around the house, We have been flexible and tried to be non suffocating, with the children now they are adults. We have let them come to us when they needed us, but this approach sometimes backfires and the connection becomes too loose. We understand that they have work/life/friends and other family members, but we have been firmly pushed down the list especially with DD.

All your suggestions are good and I have been thinking them over. I feel for all of you that also are experiencing similar situations to myself as it is not a nice feeling at all, especially when we are left wondering what to do about it all. And as said, things do change, but let's hope for the better and not for worse!

StarladyThank you for your comments. Sadly I know it is not about balancing things. We live about 30 minutes away as do my DILs family. This is not just about maintaining relationships with the grandchildren (although that is very important to us), it is about us all having normal family time together, sometimes doing some of the lovely things that families can do together. Our family time is slipping away and in the process the relationships are slipping. My DILs family seem to be a very insular family and tbh seem to have little interest in or need for anyone else. They have stuck to absolute set in stone routines for family events and get togethers for years ...at Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, annual Holidays etc and my son I know had a real fight when they first got together, regarding him and my DIL coming to us on one day over the Xmas period. That was not at my request, I will never try to put him in the position of feeling he must stick up for his wife, that is not fair. I truly don't want any sort of battle of the MIL/DIL cliche!! When my DILs family arrange a new "event" - eg going to the Fireworks all together, seaside outings in the summer, visiting the zoo, that then slips in as one of the annual family routine events. So when I suggest maybe we could all go to the firework display together (could be with her family too, maybe) my DIL just says, Oh we can't, we are going with my family. I have tried inviting everyone here for a lovely meal and also one Christmas. I was quite honestly stunned to see that they all just settled down to talk to each other, there was no effort or interest in chatting to us, they just carried on their routines but in our house. We ended up taking the bored kids to the park with my son, which tbh was quite fun, but I'm not sure that is the point. On the very few occasions when we have been at their house when my DILs family is there, the same thing happens; we are ignored, we try to make conversation, show an interest etc but replies are brief and dismissive and then they all just carry on as if we aren't there! I think my DIL is just following what is normal to her. As I said originally we are useful at the moment because of the childcare so we enjoy that but I feel so sad that we can't seem to enjoy other family things and relationships seem to be slipping away.

Nanna02

Nana, I'm so sorry. It sounds as if dil's foo are "very insular," as you say, and very controlling, too. I'm afraid you may have to give up the idea of doing things "as a family," including dil & her relatives, and just enjoy ds and the kids. Maybe even plan to have dil's foo over more often, so that you can slip away to the park with just ds and your gc. Use the time just to enjoy and bond with them

Starlady what does 'foo' stand for please? I keep reading it and it's not in the acronyms.

Wilma Thankyou!
Starlady Yes I am trying to accept; it is hard! I have started arranging to meet my son for coffee /lunchbreak occasionally which we enjoy. Not sure I could cope with the family at ours att the moment ; the rudeness and treating us a bit like a hotel ( "Do you have any houmous with pepper rather than plain? I think plain houmous is horrible!!" "No, sorry, I didn't know that" "Oh well, you will next time!" followed by a family discussion on why on earth anyone would want to paint their woodwork grey - yes you can guess what colour our woodwork is painted!) They really are rude! To be fair my DIL doesn't do that on the very rare occasions that they visit us! The whole DILs family here is just a lot of work and not fun ...plus I think my husband would just explode!! Its not worth it, frankly! Have to find different ways but I just wish we could enjoy some of the normal things families do as we did with our children and their grandparents - both sets!!

There are no excuses for them. They may not wish to spend time with you but a phone call to ask if you're both ok is free and doesn't take long. Your grandchildren however, whilst young, don't have a say. They have a right to see and become close enough to form a bond with you and give you their love. This takes effort from both your children and yourselves. I would insist that there is as frequent contact with your Grandchildren as you can make. Also, don't jump to your childrens requests for help and money. This also is a benefit earned by being close to your parents not a right.

Wilma, "foo" means "family of origin. " It's the same as saying "his/her side of he family" only quicker to write, lol!

Ugh! Ds' ils sound exhausting, Nana! I think you're right just to focus on getting together with ds right now. I'm sorry you don't get to do the family things you wish would occur, but again, I just don't think they're going to. xx.

Thanks Starlady not heard of that one before.

Just when I thought things were organised for christmas, i have been informed that the plans have now changed. AC had organised themselves for one day to be together with us on boxing day but now it's all off. We had left it to themselves to decide, and they had, we thought, worked us into their schedules. It's not as if they are in work on boxing day, or they have travel problems, but just seems like too much effort for them. So as you can guess, and at this late date, we are left saddened. They are spending Christmas day with the partners families, so we didn't mind boxing day. And on top of this our neighbours are having a blazing row, so not much Christmas spirit here at all..........

Bells have you told them how disappointed you are not to see any of them atall over the two key Christmas days? Or through just accepting it and keeping quite, do they think that you are indifferent? I ask because I think that that is exactly the problem that we have ...through being "reasonable", accepting and not putting pressure on I think we get taken for granted and end up at the bottom of the pile!!