Any advice on how to forgive?

DR. PHIL talks about Narcissism on YOU TUBE, highly recommend you see it. He will explain that with Narcissists ,you are either their adoring fan or their enemy, they hardly ever seek therapy because they think everyone, but them, needs it.

Netflix My Wife, My Abuser Captured on Camera. I watched this in shock and horror

Grandmabatty

I suggest you delete any way she has of contacting you. If you are hearing second hand, tell the person you don't want to know. If it's your son, suggest gently that he goes for counselling as an independent person might be better. You don't need to forgive, just be disinterested

Agree with this. Definitely nothing to forgive.

Two words I have found helpful in these sort of circumstances are:
1. Forgiveness is a DECISION not a feeling.
2. Don't use the word unforgivable but instead say INDEFENSIBLE.
This helps me to let go of any unpleasant memories and therefore I avoid having wrong thoughts which ultimately are harmful only to me.
I hope this can help you too.

She has been formally diagnosed. Perhaps 'forgive' was the wrong word, I want to be able to feel some kind of empathy and understanding. I know now about the condition of NPD but I am finding it difficult to completely accept that the harm and hurt that has been done was because of her illness - especially when her behaviour to the outside world is so deceptive.

Would writing it down at length and then tearing the paper up or burning it help,then treasure what you have now,hope this helps.

LR10

She has been formally diagnosed. Perhaps 'forgive' was the wrong word, I want to be able to feel some kind of empathy and understanding. I know now about the condition of NPD but I am finding it difficult to completely accept that the harm and hurt that has been done was because of her illness - especially when her behaviour to the outside world is so deceptive.

Do you think that's what she'd want - for you to empathise - or having moved on herself would she rather you just stopped thinking about her and her condition? I am not sure what you want the end result to be and what useful difference it will make to anyone if you get there? Sorry this sounds a bit snippy but I've got this pragmatic streak to me that insists on being expressed

You are right that being unable to forgive is harming you rather than her. I myself would not call this bearing a grudge, as this woman has done a lot of harm and far too much time went by before anyone realised why she was behaving as she was.

Try to focus on the fact that your ex DIL is ill, and from what I know of her condition (which is admittedly not much) she cannot to a very great extent either control her behaviour or behave more in accordance with society's norms and accepted "normal" behaviour.

Ask yourself if you would find it hard to forgive her if a terminal cancer, or Alzheimer's was causing her manipulative and disruptive and harmful behaviour?

My guess is you would find it easier because we have all been brought up to regard mental illness as something that can't be talked openly of, and many of us have a sneaking feeling that a person "ought" to be able to control the darker side of their personality. This poor woman cannot do so, so she is to be pitied, not forgiven.

Forgivness is needed when someone intentionally and in the full knowledge of the fact that they were acting wrongly hurt us, or when they inadvertently hurt us, but are capable of realising that they did wrong.

This is no more the case here, than it would be if a blind person walked into you, knocking you off your feet. We who can see are obliged to move out of the way of the blind, or tell them that we are in front of them with no possiblity of moving out of their path.

Try to concentrate on the part of the family you do still see and continue repairing the damage you have all suffered. I think you can do this best if you all can realise that your former DIL is the victim of a serious illness that she has not caused herself in any way.

Forgiveness is so very hard ,as is forgetting.
As you say , the bitterness builds and it harms only you . It can make you ill or further damage your life.
Your ex DIL does not care. She is not suffering your pain.
I have lived this.
You can't forget but you can forgive.
Forgiveness is not a single, one time action or decision.
It is daily choice that is hard but gets easier with practice and time.
The idea of writing a letter and burning it may help facilitate this decision
For your own sake , your wellbeing and that of your family, you must start making this daily choice.
Forgive daily then move on through the day. Do not ruminate on DIL . She and her legacy must not be allowed to further damage your life.
She doesn't care nor does she deserve it.
I don't know if you have a faith.
Even if you don't a book called
" Forgive and forget : healing the hurts you don't deserve " by Lewis Smedes really helped me.
I do have a faith but I have lent my copy to many none Christian friends and they have found it helpful.
Good luck and very best wishes

It’s a horrible situations isn’t it. My daughter was in marriage with a husband like this and when she left his abuse towards her and his sons became even worse. One of the children it off all contact with his dad when he was 12 as he could see how damaging it was but his brothers still sees him. The evil messages he still sends my daughter about her and their sons continue and she can’t discontinue all contact because of the son who still see his dad.

Why do you want to feel empathy for her?
Why do you want to feel anything in regard to her?
She is not part of your life is she?

LR10

She has been formally diagnosed. Perhaps 'forgive' was the wrong word, I want to be able to feel some kind of empathy and understanding. I know now about the condition of NPD but I am finding it difficult to completely accept that the harm and hurt that has been done was because of her illness - especially when her behaviour to the outside world is so deceptive.

BPD is now called Emotional disregulation disorder which is instability in emotion, behaviour and functioning.. It is very difficult to treat and the person with it inevitably causes a lot of damage within relationships.. I think that understanding through reading and research will possibly help you...

You sound as if you want to pick at a wound.
Narcissists are well known for hurting themselves just as much as anyone else.

Your son will move on, so perhaps you should too, because it wasn't your marriage, it was his.

I know someone who ticks a lot of the NPD traits.
Personally, I consider her to be quite ill.

Nothing to forgive if a person is "ill", in my opinion.

But that is my slant on things.
Others may think differently.

www.google.com/url?q=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho%25CA%25BBoponopono&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjS2ufCwMiJAxVd1jgGHau-AA0QFnoECB8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2d_fg3p7GrLe5dF__hAZ3l

Use the prayer above

Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. You do not have to forgive her. Simply, you do not deserve to be hurt any more. Live well is the best revenge!

Just a comment to those who think we should not label a person without a medical diagnosis....in the case of a narcissist it is very unlikely they will ever get a formal diagnosis because THEY don't ever think there is anything wrong with THEM so will never seek medical help. There is plenty of information online about the behaviours of such people so there's nothing wrong in recognising those traits in people around us. Regarding your dil, just stay away. Even medical professionals have a hard time "treating" people withNPD. The hardest thing is to have to live with such a person. Luckily your son is now free and may need your understanding and support. So don't worry about "forgiving" her, it's not necessary.

I don't believe in armchair diagnoses, I'm afraid.

I'm not suggesting an "armchair diagnosis" just saying that narcissistic traits are easily recognisable and if you are unlucky enough to have a narcissist in your life it helps to have some idea of why they do the things they do and how to cope with them. Lots of mental illnesses go undiagnosed because the sufferers do not recognise that they are ill. This is particularly true of personality disorders, of which NPD is only one.

Sounds like she’s been thoroughly demonised! Try to remember her for the years when everything seemed ok, and therefore effectively WAS ok.

Well I can truly empathise with everything you’ve said about you’re narcissistic dil , I’ve exactly to the letter gone through the same experience, It’s very difficult to believe that these people come into our lives and blithely destroy them , with absolutely no conscience of what they do , Very clever and so manipulative, nannimo is absolutely right ,I am recovering but the scars and the damage will last , but I am in a better place , with time ,Good luck , I’ve found being able to remove myself from her completely , has been the only way , Like has been said it’s NOT YOU ITS THEM

Pascal, BPD (or Emotional Disregulation Disorder) is different from Narcisstic Personality Disorder although there may be crossovers in traits.

icanhandthemback

*Pascal*, BPD (or Emotional Disregulation Disorder) is different from Narcisstic Personality Disorder although there may be crossovers in traits.

This is true. It’s also true that those involved in working or close relationships with people with these disorders are in for a rough time

One other thought re this - that I use myself when seeing bad behaviour of any description. I remind myself that Earth is a planet with people of all levels of "development" (and none....) on it and that includes many of a lower level. The evidence is there any time one turns on the news - and sees just how many wars are being fought across the globe (last time I saw a total of them it said it's 22!!!). There's huge disparities of wealth and power. One can't go a week without one or more thieves (scammers) sending you an email or making a phonecall to you attempting to steal from you etc etc.

Thank goodness there are some more advanced/nicer/more honest people too!

So personally I just think "That's the way it is on this planet - there's one heck of a lot of young souls - as well as the decent ones" and that helps maintain a certain level of detachment I find - as I just shrug shoulders and think "That's living on Earth for you.....I'm not making that mistake again (ie coming back for another life here - yep...I'm one of those people that believe in reincarnation)". It helps me personally to "shrug - and let go".....

So I just go:
"They're a narcissist - they're young"....shrug
"They're a thief - they're young"....shrug
"They're a warmonger - they're young"....shrug.