Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

X posts Skye17

Yours far more eloquently I meant to add.

All religion is about controlling the population and there is no better example than Iran that promotes violence wherever it can
Christians have been little better in the past

Christians have committed historical atrocities.
It used to be, when a siege was broken, that the victorious soldiers were given, in advance, forgiveness for the sins they were about to inflict upon the town's survivors.

Thank you Nannee49

David49

All religion is about controlling the population and there is no better example than Iran that promotes violence wherever it can
Christians have been little better in the past

If all religion is about controlling the population, it is mysterious how Christianity grew in the Roman Empire for over 200 years under persecution, sometimes severe persecution.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Roman_Empire

It is also mysterious why people persist in following Jesus under severe persecution in other countries, such as North Korea or Iran. In fact, according to the charity Open Doors, one in seven Christians worldwide are persecuted for their faith.
www.opendoorsuk.org/

Not much controlling going on there.

Maremia

Christians have committed historical atrocities.
It used to be, when a siege was broken, that the victorious soldiers were given, in advance, forgiveness for the sins they were about to inflict upon the town's survivors.

Sadly many groups of people have committed atrocities. Roughly 90 million people died under atheist regimes in the 20th century, for example.
www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/2013/03/atheist-governments-of-the-20th-century-the-death-toll-of-godless-goodness/#e7fIbCaTX4M6KxDt.99

(By contrast, around 6 million people are thought to have died in the Crusades.)
www.historyextra.com/period/medieval/crusades-causes-history-when-how-many-were-there-death-toll/

When people who called themselves Christians did it, they were going against the teachings of Christianity.

Skye17

I also know peaceful Muslims. But I think a religion needs to be evaluated by its sources, not by individuals who identify as belonging to that religion.

Some UK Muslims do not even know what the Quran teaches, or if they do they don’t want to obey it. But there are those who do.

It is a surprising fact that according to a poll carried out last year, almost a third of UK Muslims would like to see sharia law implemented in the UK.

The marching orders for Christians according to their holy source (the Bible) are to love their neighbours and pray for those who persecute them. The marching orders for Muslims according to their holy sources are to subjugate the world to Islam (see above).

So, the vast majority do not want Sharia law. It doesn’t matter what the minority want, it isn’t going to happen.

Skye17

I know this is a zombie thread. But seeing as it came up, here's an answer to the OP.

Here are some of the teachings from the Islamic sources, which I think show that Islam is not a religion of love and peace.

1. Non-Muslims
Violently subjugate unbelievers to Islam.
- Qur’an Sura 9.29, Sura 4.89

Sahih Bukhari 1.2.24
//Allah's apostle [Mohammed] said: I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's apostle …//

(There are some more peaceful teachings in the Qur’an, but these are abrogated, or superseded, by later non-peaceful teachings.)

//Verily, Allah does not love the unbelievers [those who do not believe in Islam].//
- Surah Ali Imran 3:32

2. Jews and Christians are to be treated as second-class citizens (dhimmis)
//Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book [Jews and Christians], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.//
- Sura 9.29

3. Jihad
Those who die in jihad [‘a struggle or fight against the enemies of Islam’] are assured of salvation. (Many interpret this to include dying in terrorist acts.)
- Sura 61.10-12, Sura 4.74

As far as I know no one else is assured of salvation in Islam. Mohammed said that he was not certain of it. So if a young man feels he has led a sinful life and is unlikely to be able to do enough good deeds to outweigh his sins, the only way he can certainly avoid hell according to Islam is by taking part in jihad.

4. Apostates
Kill anyone who leaves Islam.
- Sahih Al-Bukharivolume 9, book 84, no. 57

5. Women
Women are spiritually inferior and intellectually deficient.
- Sahih Muslim number 142, Sahih Al-Bukhari number 2658

It is permissible to rape women you have captured in war.
- Sura 23.1-6, 70.22-30

6. Marriage
Beat wives from whom you fear disobedience into submission.
- Sura 4.34

Child marriage
Sahih Muslim 3480 (also 3482):
//It was narrated that Aisha said: 'The Prophet married me when I was six years old and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine years old.'//
We know from other sources that Aisha had not reached puberty at the time that Mohammed consummated the marriage. (Also that Aisha was his favourite wife.) Mohammed was 50 at the time of the marriage.

7. Gay sex
Throw people who have gay sex off the top of tall buildings, or burn them to death.
- Abd-Allah ibn ‘Abbas
islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality

8. Punishments under sharia law
//For a handful of specific crimes, the punishment is fixed (ḥadd):

⁃death for apostasy
⁃amputation of the hand for theft
⁃and of the hand and foot for highway robbery
⁃death by stoning for extramarital sexual relations (zinā) when the offender is married and 100 lashes when the offender is unmarried
⁃80 lashes for an unproved accusation of unchastity (qadhf)
⁃and for the drinking of any intoxicant.//
www.britannica.com/topic/sharia/Penal-law

9. Antisemitism
For example:

//The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jews will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, “O Muslim, O Abdullah [slave of Allah], there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”//
- Sahih Muslim, 41:6985

Pretty sure you could find equally appalling passages in the Old Testament.

Basgetti Pretty sure you could find equally appalling passages in the Old Testament.

Of course Bibles (Pope Pius XII allowed Bible study) have appalling passages. The Old Testament is replete with horrors.

Norah

Basgetti Pretty sure you could find equally appalling passages in the Old Testament.

Of course Bibles (Pope Pius XII allowed Bible study) have appalling passages. The Old Testament is replete with horrors.

Well yes. I expect you could.

But what does that or passages that f any other religion have to do with a discussion in the the theology and practice of Islam?

The avoidance of an issue ( whatever it is about) by going off at a tangent or trying to redirect always to me reveals a fear of what discussion of the issue might reveal.

Perhaps those who have sought to divert the argument to other religions could explain why they think that is relevant?

Because certain posters are suggesting that Islam is somehow far, far worse than other religions and that every Muslim a threat. Simply not true.
I’m an atheist and see all religions as dangerous, Islam not more so than any other.

How many terrorist incidents in this country have Hindus organised, or Methodists.

Lathyrus3 well said!

Basgetti

Because certain posters are suggesting that Islam is somehow far, far worse than other religions and that every Muslim a threat. Simply not true.
I’m an atheist and see all religions as dangerous, Islam not more so than any other.

But how does it defend one religion to point out that another one is just as bad?

It makes no sense.

I don’t know, Halaxy. I’ve seen reports of some pretty viscious attacks by Hindus on Muslims in other countries, though. Anders Brevik identified as Christian and I wouldn’t fancy my chances as a gay person in evangelical Methodist nations in Africa or Christian fundamentalist communities in the US. Point is, all religions harbour extremists. The current narrative in sections of the UK media/politics that Islam-evil, other religions-good is just not true.

Not defending any religion, Lathyrus. Just pointing out that Islam is no better or worse than others. I’d get rid of the lot and start again if it was within my power! Though I suspect that humans being humans, they’d find something else to go to war about.

I can help you with the figures.
Islamic terrorism has caused 100 deaths in the UK since 2001.
Attacks relating to Hinduism in the UK are 0.

Compare and contrast, that's a reason.
Bringing balance to the discussion, is another.
However, the main reason for bringing various aspects and points of view is that this is Gransnet, and all may express their opinion, as long as we stay within the rules.

Galaxy

I can help you with the figures.
Islamic terrorism has caused 100 deaths in the UK since 2001.
Attacks relating to Hinduism in the UK are 0.

I tend to look at what’s happening in the world, not just the UK.

I tend to deal in facts rather than wishes as to what might be.

Basgetti

I don’t know, Halaxy. I’ve seen reports of some pretty viscious attacks by Hindus on Muslims in other countries, though. Anders Brevik identified as Christian and I wouldn’t fancy my chances as a gay person in evangelical Methodist nations in Africa or Christian fundamentalist communities in the US. Point is, all religions harbour extremists. The current narrative in sections of the UK media/politics that Islam-evil, other religions-good is just not true.

You're confusing the actions of people that identify as a follower of any particular religion with the stated and written doctrine of the religion. Perhaps you can quote from the various religions that have doctrine equivalent to the ones of Islam?

Galaxy

I tend to deal in facts rather than wishes as to what might be.

Well said, me too!

Basgetti

Because certain posters are suggesting that Islam is somehow far, far worse than other religions and that every Muslim a threat. Simply not true.
I’m an atheist and see all religions as dangerous, Islam not more so than any other.

Deaths due to Islamist extremists dwarf by far any other similar kinds of killings.

I am not confused. Discussing the risk of Islamic terrorism is not the same as saying all Muslims are a danger.
Quite similar to when we discuss male violence we are not saying all males are dangerous.
I would also say that trying not to talk about difficult issues has been spectacularly unsuccessful in the past.