Gransnet forums


Business leaders turn to church for advice

(34 Posts)
Lilygran Sun 23-Sep-12 14:05:53 I heard about this on Radio 4 this morning. It's reported in several papers including the Financial Times.

Nanadogsbody Sun 23-Sep-12 15:10:57

Sorry lilygranbut he's having a laugh surely? confused

Lilygran Sun 23-Sep-12 16:16:10

Apparently not. They interviewed some eminent business magnate who said something on the lines of greed not having worked and the importance of finding a better way.

Greatnan Sun 23-Sep-12 18:11:44

Well the church could certainly give some good tips on how to cover up misdeeds! We won't mention the mafia.

Lilygran Sun 23-Sep-12 18:18:26

I wondered where you were, Greatnan!

glitabo Sun 23-Sep-12 19:02:40

The Church of Rome is not political? confused
It is not in the business of Business? confused

JessM Sun 23-Sep-12 19:23:50

Gulp. The notion of putting one's own corporate culture in order is not an issue then? With all those cover ups and scandal?
Pope a fine example of poverty and humility at the top with his embroidered robes, private hospital, summer palace etc.

glitabo Sun 23-Sep-12 19:33:23

Wasn't there a scandal about the Papal finances and the priest accountable hanging himself from a bridge?

Greatnan Sun 23-Sep-12 20:30:43

Yes, glitabo, his name was Roberto Calvi and he was deeply involved in money laundering and other frauds. He was at first supposed to have committed suicide but forensic evidence showed he had been murdered. An American Archbishop was briefly arrested but released. The Vatican was suspected by many people of involvement - Calvi was known as 'God's Banker' as he dealt with the Vatican's affairs.

Lily - I would hate to disappoint you!

Nelliemoser Sun 23-Sep-12 20:44:59

Perhaps It was God who took vengeance on him.

glitabo Sun 23-Sep-12 20:58:05

Has anyone read The Godfather or seen the film?

annodomini Sun 23-Sep-12 21:20:07

Hasn't everyone?

Ana Sun 23-Sep-12 21:28:41

I must admit that was my reaction, too! grin

Lilygran Sun 23-Sep-12 21:52:50

Thanks, Greatnan, true to form. Church people have done really bad things over the years. Some of those you mention happened in a different age, - sending orphans and children in care was intended as a way of populating 'the colonies' and providing the children with a means of making their own way in the world. Sometimes it went dreadfully wrong. Some happened more recently - the Roberto Calvi scandal, for example. I'm no apologist for the Church of Rome but although I accept some of its members have failed to live up to its values, it is not the sole source of wickedness in the world. And a large number of eminent businessmen think it has something to offer in terms of clarifying their values. You don't like Catholic schools. Ofsted thinks differently. Catholic schools in general get very high marks for the excellence of their values and their care for the spiritual development of the pupils in their charge.

Greatnan Sun 23-Sep-12 22:16:18

Snap, Lily - your own posts are hardly a surprise to us. I have said what I think and now I will leave you to continue posting controversial subjects to your heart's content.

glitabo Sun 23-Sep-12 22:43:13

I think, in this thread, I have made more adverse comments about the Catholic Church than Greatnan has done. I used to teach in a catholic school and, as I said in my post, my 2DSs went to a very good catholic school in England. This does not prevent me from commenting on the obscene amount of wealth accumulated by the Catholic Church while some parishioners live in abject poverty, take Latin South American Countries for example. I also believe that the Church of England, The Mormons and most other sects you can mention has also accrued vast wealth.
My cynicism stems from the fact that the church can give help and direction about acquiring revenue, but I do not see much evidence of this being distributed throughout the masses (no pun intended).
For this country to prosper the workforce needs to be empowered. In my experience the ethos of any religious group is to subject rather than empower.
I am sorry if this post upsets anyone. My intention is to be honest and realistic as I see it and have experienced it.

Nanadogsbody Sun 23-Sep-12 22:46:32

I still think he's having a laugh... grin

glitabo Sun 23-Sep-12 23:17:54

Just to add to the confusion, I have been posting on 2 threads at the same time, so my last post on this thread crosses over with the one about about the initiation ceremony in the Polish school.
mea culpa

absentgrana Mon 24-Sep-12 09:10:21

On the contrary – this is all perfectly in accord with biblical teaching. Render unto Caesar etc. What exactly is wealth creation? Is making grotesque sums of money for some individuals (directors and shareholders) – which, after all, is what successful businesses do – noble? What a strange word to choose.

Nelliemoser Mon 24-Sep-12 09:25:06

Totally out of context to the discussion. I have just noticed that all the names on the posts here are in blue apart from mine and absentgranas. Does this mean anything? Ooh I am observant this morning!

absentgrana Mon 24-Sep-12 09:30:11

Nelliemoser The posters whose names are in blue have a profile. Click on a blue name to read what the poster has to say about herself or himself and family, look at their photographs etc. I used to have one but decided that it made me sound so boring, it was better deleted. Also, as I look like a man in drag with a face like a horse in photographs, I avoid cameras whenever possible. If oyu weant to set up a profile, go to My Gransnet.

Lilygran Mon 24-Sep-12 09:54:37

I know there are those of you who believe, contrary to any evidence, that the purpose of religion is to amass great wealth and power. In the case of Latin America, it wasn't the Church that assassinated Archbishop Romero. I know that there are Gransnetters who, because of their own bad experiences or perceptions extend these to the entire church (or whatever). However, there are many people who do not share these views. Among them is a large group of eminent businessmen who think they can learn something from the Roman Church about business values and ethics - not about acquiring wealth. I do not think the messages I have been posting are any more, or less, controversial than those with anti-religion, anti-church themes which are what first caught my attention on Gransnet. Unless someone out there thinks that pro-religion comments are intrinsically controversial?

Greatnan Mon 24-Sep-12 10:04:40

Whatever the intentions of the founders of religions (Ron L. Hubbard etc. excepted) I do think that many leaders of religions today are interested in amassing power, if not money, for themselves. This is certainly true in the USA, where several tele-evangelists have been shown to be con men.
The present Christian churches, with a few honourable exceptions such as Quakers, are so far removed from the poverty and simplicity of Jesus's life that it is hard reconcile their riches with his teachings.

If anyone wants to refute any of the facts I quote about various religions, they are free to do so - I am sure my research is not always totally accurate.
Nobody has ever said that ALL religious believers are evil as this would be an incredibly stupid remark

glitabo Mon 24-Sep-12 10:14:49

Lilygran I don't think your posts are more controversial than those with anti -religion views.
We would not be able to have a debate if we all thought the same.
For the record, my religious history is chequered. I was the daughter of a Welsh methodist lay preacher. I married an Irish catholic.
In one school I was head of RE. I have taught in a RC school and I taught the catechism to RC children attending Protestant schools.
What I have learnt is there is no difference in attitudes between RC, Methodist, C of E, e.t.c. There are people in all faiths who are sincere and some you use the system to their own advantage. Unfortunately it is very often the latter who are in powerful positions.
Again for the record - I now have no religious faith, but I can empathise with those who do and would not wish to make personal attacks.

feetlebaum Mon 24-Sep-12 10:42:01

I have never seen or read, or had any wish to see or read, The Godfather.

It all sounded thoroughly unpleasant - and so unlike the home life of our own dear Queen...