Things atheists have said

Thanks for the link, Mel.

If, like me, you felt like an oppressed minority amongst your family and OH's family, you would wish there was a Bags at your side. I enjoyed the quotes.

I do however love our village church and do a lot of fundraising for it. It serves the community well. My husband plays the organ for it, my son is an ex chorister from a large cathedral. I took him to church from an early age to please my inlaws, but he too decided from a very young age that he was an unbeliever. There are ways to coexist, and we need to in order to live a happy life. But if anyone asks me about my beliefs I am very open about the fact that I don't have any, and our vicar accepted that very easily. I like the social life that our church provides, and she likes the cakes I bake and the washing-up and stallholding that I do. I think it's quite funny that my family are greater zealots than my vicar.

Don't worry about my spending ages, jings. They're all in one place. I've always liked that hymn you linked to. I used to sing it quite a lot when I was in a choir (nothing to do with church). And I'm not sad, but it's kind of you to care.

In response to other comments, I don't think atheism is just non-belief. Atheists believe in good things and in doing good thing just the same as theists. The only lack is of faith in the supernatural. It doesn't feel like a lack; more like a liberation. I've seen threads on different sites where people who have discovered their own atheism are profoundly grateful to others for speaking about it because that has helped them.

I'm sure the same thing works for people who are looking for religion too.

The law decrees that all schools should hold a daily act of corporate worship that is mainly Christian. It was not hard for me as an atheist headteacher to deliver this. I could talk about:
- loving your neighbour even if they are not exactly like you,
- being caring and thoughtful to those that are on hard times /disliked by others
- stewardship and appreciation of the natural world
- being truthful & respectful
- sharing and not being greedy or selfish
- following rules for the good of everyone
etc etc

In a nutshell I believe that as a member of the human race I have a responsibility to live my life so I do not harm or upset others, to try to support the community in which I live by contributing to it, to be active in promoting fairness for groups and individuals, to do what iI can to protect vulnerable people, to minimise damage to the natural environment so it continues for future generations.

I do this not to please a god and or to secure everlasting life in heaven but because I believe in human kind and it's the right thing to do.

Please note...I try my best..I have major lapses & do not always succeed. I am only human

As are we all, nanaej.

I find it very sad that so many seemingly intelligent people spend so much time these days trying to vilify or discredit others, whether it is because of their faith or their lack of it.

It seems it's fashionable to sneer at the beliefs or non-beliefs of our fellow human beings, and to search for the bad in everything, and it's an ugly and dangerous trend, as well as being rude and insensitive.

Life's too short and too precious to be used trying to create yet more divisions between people.

Well said nanaej and Maggiemaybe.

I do so agree with you Maggie and GN is not immune from such beahviour.

And Gransnet have finally caught up with the thread with the old red marker pen!

Alright then Bags? x #I'macow

I have been out of this thread as I was out enjoying myself yesterday evening. It had gone downhill when I came back to it. What started as an amicable discussion of a whacky but not vicious pastiche of holy-speak had become an attack on someone for defining their own position on religion.

When Christians were first expanding into a hostile world, they were pilloried (often literally!) for fearlessly expressing their views. They were brave missionaries for their new gospel of peace on earth and goodwill to all men, and a lot of them found that goodwill was sadly in short supply. Later they were hailed and raised to sainthood for the way they persuaded others to convert to their doctrine.

Whatever happened to "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" ? Are opinions only allowed for those of one view? Why is it OK to preach a religion and quote from theologians to consolidate your arguments, but to quote texts against belief is to be vilified?

Discussion is healthy, some of the comments on this thread are not.

Whatever happened to knowing when to shut up!

carp carp carp

Thanks, Elegran. It's awful to see people taunted and pilloried because they have expressed their views. No-one is out to convert others, and what's the harm in saying we don't agree?

Couldn't agree more when.

Knowing when to shut up is indeed a useful skill, jings A pity that so few people possess it.

I don't see that anyone has been taunted and pilloried for expressing their views, whether for religion or not. I would certainly hope that no-one took my posts as being in that vein. Reading back through the thread by far the greater posts are by non-believers - so who is being "taunted and pilloried".

Should have added that I don't take exception to anything said by non-believers in this thread - I welcome any discussion, so long as it is kept on a civil level.

Some posts are taunts and some were downright nasty, Sunseeker. Not from you, I hasten to add. Healthy discussion, even when it is strident and challenging, and definitely not personal, seems to be unacceptable in some quarters.

I think I've had enough of this thread now. Trying to retrieve reasonable discussion is futile, so when we are going round in circles, it's pointless continuing. Peace!

sunseeker You have been polite and moderate in all your posts.

One theme that keeps being repeated is that the non-religious appear to post more than the religious. You wondered, back there a bit, whether it is because they are insecure in their non-belief.

When the religious take the opportunity to speak of their beliefs, and to proselytise and take their doctrine to convert the heathens (who are probably quite as content with their heathen-ness as the Christians are with their Christianity) is that also because they are insecure in their belief? Or because they are secure in the knowledge that they have the only answer?

And is it not those who are too secure in their belief that their view is the only viable one who oppress those who do not agree and force them into surface conformity?

@AKA I've usually avoided these sort of thread but do you seriously think that those children would have been sent away to Australia if people had known what would happen to them? Life in post war Britain was grim for orphans and emigration was looked on as a golden opportunity. I've met people who felt they had brilliant chances which they took. Surely not all bad.(I have nothing to do with the Sally Army but admire what they do TODAY not half a century ago. Torquemada knew exactly what he was doing as do the Buddhists in Burma and I must say I'm very disappointed in them after their silent protests against the Generals. Not that my opinion will sway them.......

I would never advocate oppression of those with a differing view to my own, I am also uncomfortable with the idea of travelling to other countries in order to convert the indiginous population, although having said that I know that a lot of what used to be called missionaries do much to help those peoples.

There is extremism on both sides, the murder of priests and congregations simply for being Christian (still happening) and the forceable "conversions" of the past (which I believe may be in some parts of the world). Both are equally repugnant to me.

My comment about non-believers posting because they are insecure in thire non-belief was tongue in cheek and perhaps I should have made that clear.

Sorry that should have read ....which I believe may still be happening in some parts of the world.

"Strident" can be a bit hard to take on a subject that may be very close to a person's heart when.

But hey! Never mind.

I am totally bemused. Surely saying you are an atheist and that you don't want the beliefs of others imposing on you by law is not sneering, offensive, or insulting? Where are people finding these comments?