There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

When my son died I was still a believer. In fact I clung to that belief because of the promise that I'd see him again. But one day when I was feeling particularly grief stricken and was calling God names I was told by a 'good' Christian that by speaking in that manner I was condemning myself to Hell. Over the years and through many traumatic events I have insulted and cursed God on many occasions. If he's truly omnipotent then he should have broad enough shoulders to take my curses. If he's not then, tough.

Now I'm agnostic. The belief is too ingrained to give it up completely (yet) but too much has happened in my life to believe in an all loving, omnipotent God.

Granny23, Cherrytree, your posts are very moving and do, in my mind, prove that there is no Loving God who sees the smallest sparrow fall. But, how long has there been this Loving God? My memory tells me that until fairly recently God was omnipotent - apart from a few probables with a rebellious Satan/Devil who would upset the apple cart - but he wasn't loving. Or forgiving. Not in the least. In fact if you upset him, or your parents, or their parents etc, he could be very vengeful and not very nice at all! If something happened like the horrors described by Granny and Cherrytree it must have been in retribution for something done by a loved one. You had to toe the line, be meek and obedient and obey your pastor, vicar, father, prior, minister... Or else!

I do feel there should be a reason for our existence - the universe and everything that is - so I'm agnostic. I feel there is something, but am unable to comprehend what. Maybe I'll find out one day, or maybe there'll just be oblivion.

Vampirequeen, why did you think the 'good Christian ' was correct ?

This thread, fascinating as it is, has concentrated on just one god, in which many of us here claim to believe. What made you all choose that one, out of the more than two thousand that have been created and worshipped? Just geography? In other words because it was the prevalent belief in your country of origin? Otherwise you might have been Muslim or Hindu or,,,

Certainly the claims of 'personal relationship with' a deity are unacceptable as evidence, as they cannot be replicated by others, and are merely anecdotal. One often encounters claims that someone 'just knows'... that reminded Bertrand Russell that Aristotle taught his students
that women had fewer teeth than men. He just knew it... he could have asked a compient Greek lady to open her mouth and let him count, but no, he just knew, and that was enough for old Aris. So much for 'just knowing'!

Jings, earlier on in this thread, you called someone else's comment 'plain stupid', is that any better than 'go figure'?

Anyway, after a few months on Gransnet I realise that the forums are not for me, too much bitching and bullying, I am going to get on with my 'perfect' life without it. I am not really sure why I joined Gransnet, I thought maybe I would find a like kind, but no, I haven't, far from it.

Bye.....

Don't slam the door on the way out!

That's very sad Nannygoat. Could you please before you go just start a thread and tell GN what you would have like to have found on GN. Halp us to understand what was missing for you.

Feetlebaum you have just read my mind!! You have put it much better than I could have. It all depends on where you were born. Just like skin, hair colour etc.
.

There are many threads on GN where you can just have a natter, but they can't all be like that.

Yes Nannygoat. At least it's not as bad. It was an honest opinion about another post. I certainly was not calling the poster stupid. "Go figure" has connotations of a deliberate, and mindless, insult. IMO.

I hope there's no bullying on here! (a little bit of bitching won't hurt too much )

vq that was just one person who you think was a 'good Christian'. Who knows if they are right or not?

Jesus himself cried out to God on the cross, some believe doubting him.

I hope you don't leave Nannygoat. It's mostly good isn't it?

I wish this thread would go away. I hate it now.

Granny23, you are deciding who should live and who should die . You believed in a god who awarded gold stars which gave protection from accidents and death. There is no promise in Christs teachings which could have given you this belief . The deaths of the two you speak of were so tragic, but all accidents are tragedies .

Should I have turned from God when my two babies died at birth yet other babies who were unwanted lived . Or because my husband died far too young trying to stop drug dealers whilst corrupt police officers go into retirement ? Was I angry? Yes, did I blame God for not giving me gold stars to protect me ? No. I am not special in his eyes, not favoured , but I am loved by him and he did see me through dark days and nights because he didn't rescue his son from the cross did he ? He didn't give Mary gold stars , she watched her son die a horrific death , had he done wrong?

True rosequartz . The words from the cross are so powerful , Christ felt forsaken at one stage but this passed

Jingle - a case of take care what you wish for, you may get it ?

It's sodding guilt anniebach.

I envy you your sure-ness ab.

Jingle , cast aside that guilt , why should you hold guilt for expressing love for a child and anger for his suffering . I share these emotions but I don't feel guilt , Christ had no problem in expressing his views on those hurt children did he? If he can you and I certainly can.

Some moving posts on here with much food for thought.

I mentioned original sin because that is what I was taught in confirmation classes and I believe some christians still believe in it today.

anniebach Perhaps atheists and agnostics think a lot about what Christians believe in because they want to examine each concept and either discard it with logical thought and explanation, or think long and hard about whether or not it is true or that something could be feasible.

I can't believe that anyone is truly good and perfect. Even Jesus recognised that he was not.
Isn't pride one of the deadly sins transforming God's angel Lucifer into Satan?
However I am sure that most people strive to overcome their shortcomings to become the best person they can be.

Others do give in to their baser instincts, sometimes due to circumstances in their upbringing over which they have no control.
However, research is examining the theory that some people have a genetic predisposition to criminal behaviour.

rosequartz , atheists here are only quoting negative teachings given by Christians . Jo Bloggs said etc so I stopped believing in God. Is it an easy way out?

Yes, G23 came across one of the less appealing representatives. Some varieties of Christianity (and other religions) rule by guilt. Controlling every natural thought and every cry of despair by saying that railing against your fate is condemning your soul to everlasting hell is still control, even (especially?) if it is done in the name of a loving God. We have had a few posts of that description on the forum, which even soontobe rejected.

I would put that attitude in the same box as parents who rule their children with ""Mummy won't love you any more if you do that" which I have heard in a supermarket.

Luckily it is not the standard response. Most are caring generous-hearted people.

It is not that aspect that causes many to turn away, though. What alienates me most is the adherence to the Bible stories as literal truth, and the keeping up of practices with no purpose except perpetuating obedience. It would be impossible for me to go along with the 7-day creation myth, for instance. The rocks of earth - supposedly laid down by God in a day - were layered over millenia, and evidence of any life at all is only in recent strata, and of man in ones that were almost yesterday. If God really did make them in one day, why on earth would he disguise them so that they appeared to be aeons old?

And so on.

The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed this prayer: 'I thank you, God, that I am not a sinner like everyone else. For I don't cheat, I don't sin, and I don't commit adultery. I'm certainly not like that tax collector!
I fast twice a week, and I give you a tenth of my income."

Sorry rosequartz, forgot, yes pride is listed as one of the deadly sins .

I get frustrated because generation after generation of uneducated people were controlled by fear and this has left scars . Go into village churches and see in many how some pews are set higher in the nave than than most , so the lord of the manor and his family, who often was so immoral sat, grrrrrr

Yes Elegran, and Christ told them they were hypocrites did he not ?