There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

He did, AB and there is also "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone"

The Lord of the Manor and his family don't sit in that high pew any more, though, do they? They don't have the right to appoint the priest of their choice, either.

But they do really Elegran , just look at services held in Westminster Abbey

My point on those seats is sime seem unable to shake off those years of fear of divine intervention

Why do people not listen to Christ, so much love . The two shortests verses in the bible are 'Jesus Wept. and 'God Is Love'

We seem to have turned from all those years of fear of a God who watched our every move and blew a fuse if we did even a teeny wrong act to wanting to control God and tell him to jump when we say jump

Anniebach Thanks.

I havent got time to go over all these recent posts in full.
But I keep seeing the phrase "loving God".
Yes, he obviously is that, but in the Bible as a whole, he has all sorts of other parts to his personality as well.
And these seem to get overlooked both by non Christians and Christians.

God isn't supposed to have a personality. He isn't a human being.
He just is - if indeed he is at all.

And is God supposed to have given man free will?

soon, why not post what you judge as overlooked

jing, I am not sure what you feel guilty about? If it is bringing up a difficult subject, God does not expect us to keep silent in matters that are difficult.

To all those all feel they only have a scrap of faith left, keep hold of it tightly. Very tightly indeed.

Totally agree about people having reserved or higher places or whatever.

I may have said before that I think that atheists are much more likely to become Christians than those who have nothing to do with Christianity at all. My heart is glad when someone says that they are an aetheist!

feetlebaum. Those who have not heard of Christianity will be told before they are judged at the end.

Anniebach, that is a big ask!
I will try tomorrow.

Those who have not heard of Christianity will be told before they are judged at the end.

Well, it's a bit late then, isn't it?

Some of DH's ancestors were missionaries.
They did do their best in difficult circumstances.
However, trying to convince someone who has their own firm beliefs that they are wrong is a bit, what's the word, presumptuous? that you are right and that they are wrong.

It is interesting that each person (and many on here) sees god in a different way (vengeful, loving, egalitarian, hierarchical etc.); and indeed, as feetlebaum points out, it is not just the one god that people worship - there are many cited within various world religions.

It reinforces my feeling that god is a human construct to try and explain the unexplainable. We all feel a sense of awe and wonder at the world and its creatures, and as mere humans want to find some explanation - so we postulate the existence of a creator - that does not mean there is/was one, but simply that we feel more comfortable having some explanation. True or not, it does not matter, as people continue to turn themselves inside out trying to credit this god with love, charity, fatherliness etc., because that is at we would prefer. But there is no evidence that this is so.

The world is a wonder - but it is not benign. The whole way in which the food chain is constructed, based on dominance, suffering and slaughter, is a perverse decision, and I do not feel thankful for that. Organisms are set up to kill or be killed, and we as humans are no different, with millions of species of bacteria and viruses just waiting to carry us off.

It makes no sense to single out the lovely things (the smell of a rose maybe) to attribute to god, whilst ignoring the inherent evils in creation.

And, having postulated this god, many religions represent it in human terms, attributing to it personality traits - indeed soon says he has many aspects to his personality - that is a sort of anthropomorphism, and is clearly nonsense. If a being capable of creating this world does exist, it is likely to be something far outwith our human frame.

Infinity is a difficult (impossible!) concept to grasp too.

For ever and ever, world without end
Amen

Does that mean infinity?

Infinity is best not thought about. IMO.

Go and have your dinner and watch the box.

soon I'm feeling guilty about the thread title. I wish it would go away now. (Feetle would say that has to do with brain-washing)

I think that is where I am coming from too. You could waste a whole life trying to understand these infinite mysteries.

Go and have your dinner and watch the box
Yes, good idea, anything else is making my head hurt

I'll go and join Michael P on the train

@Elegran - "and there is also "Let him who is without sin among you cast the first stone".

That story doesn't appear until the fourth century - it's just not there in the earlier documents.

Jings - brainwashing? Not entirely sure I would ascribe anything to that - indoctrination, yes...

And there endeth the lesson.........or not?

You could waste a whole life trying to understand these infinite mysteries. and therein lies the great pity of it all. So many good, kind, caring people pondering the imponderable, carrying huge burdens of guilt, calling themselves sinners. So many of mankind's greatest brains devoted to interpreting & reinterpreting the 'sacred' writings. So many families, communities and countries torn apart because of small differences in doctrine.

Have you ever pondered what benefits religion bestows on god-fearing people. No one on this thread has been able to articulate any tangible benefit. Now ponder if there might be benefits that accrue to unscrupulous, greedy, self serving people who set themselves above the ordinary people - our rulers, tyrants, global conglomerates, warmongers and the like - in promoting the idea of a supreme being - he/she who must be obeyed - who is omnipresent, whose dictates permeate every aspect of life, who is promoted in state schools. Then add this GOD into the mix e.g God, Queen & Country, and any sin, minor misdemeanour, or big crime committed is punishable by penalties ranging from fines to eternal damnation, the latter even if the sin or crime has not been detected. That's the stick - the carrot is the promise of pie in the sky when you die.

Thankfully, in the West the majority of people have begun to think for themselves, to question the status quo, to conclude there is no God (or none worth following) or simply to be totally disinterested in the whole concept but willing to sing the odd hymn at a wedding or funeral. In the Middle East currently we have a modern manifestation of this powerful mix of control by state/dictatorship allied with religion.

Sorry this is so long and heavy but contrary to the views expressed in many of the posts on this thread I do not usually give much thought to matters religious other than to note their political impact on world events. I do not even have a label (agnostic, atheist, whatever) as I do not classify myself this way, nor an ethos other than the basic 'do as little harm and as much good as you can.' But the thread caught my attention and I felt the urge to put my thoughts down. I do not intend to contradict, argue, upset anyone - each to their own - but it pains me to see good people struggling to reconcile their upbringing v current beliefs/lack of belief.

and any sin, minor misdemeanour, or big crime committed is punishable by penalties ranging from fines to eternal damnation

I do think we have to have the rule of law though, otherwise society would be anarchic and chaotic.
Whether the law of the country or God's law is a moot point.
Perhaps the thought of eternal damnation keeps some people from sinning - or breaking the law.
But often people hide behind a veneer of respectability and religion to commit horrendous sins.

I don't believe in eternal damnation and I do not follow the teachings of Christ in the hope of being accepted into glory. Neither do I struggling to reconcile my upbringing with my belief .

And I haven't got a clue what anyone's talking about anymore.

Oh thank Gawd - it isn't just me then...