There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

I wonder if they'd delete this thread if I asked them. Probably not.

Just posters opinions on God or no God , nothing new has been added to the age old - yes there is / no there isn't .

I have stated my position on religion several times over the last few years and am not going to do it again, you'll be pleased to know, jingl.

Have you ever pondered what benefits religion bestows on god-fearing people. No one on this thread has been able to articulate any tangible benefit

Comfort,guidance, inner peace, strength, love. Probably a whole lot more, and not necessarily in that order.

feetlebaum. How do you know that all documents have been found? They seem to be finding bits all the time.

Granny23 for what it's worth I agree wholeheartedly with your last post.

Brought up Roman Catholic, I stayed faithful to the Church until I was about 21. I had gradually become disillusioned, believed less and less in the teachings of the Church. When my Father died about 20 years later, I made the choice to arrange for him to receive the Last Rites and a Catholic burial, but I know I was hedging my bets and doing it just in case God is real. When I visit my Mum, I accompany her to church because I know it pleases her, yet I pray when I am there just in case God is listening. The rest of the time I just try to live my life as best I can, being kind and as compassionate as I can, but never giving God a thought. I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated. That is my version of being Christian, being Christ like.

There's no place in my life for the God to be worshipped blindly, the God who is used to control the lives of millions, the God believers use to excuse the suffering of humanity, the God in whose name people make war. The God who is used to justify the abuse of power. No place at all.

Really Wilma, you are saying there is no place in your life for the people who use the name of God for ill deeds and thoughts, all you have listed are the works of man

I agree with you soon and will add joy

There appears to be quite a lot of research evidence that people of faith suffer less depression and other illnesses as well as being, well happy
I'd like to stress imo those who follow fundamentalist faiths can't possibly fit into that research

@soontobe - I don't. As it is there are no known original documents at all for a couple of centuries, then those that have been discovered are only fragments, full of scribal editing - an example being the introduction into Josephus' of a blatantly forged paragraph about Jesus. Scribes saw no reason why they shouldn't add their own comments as they copied documents, and it was quite usual to put the name of a famous author on your copy, as a selling point.

The bible scholar Bart Ehrman has written some very interesting books on the subject - Misquoting Jesus is one, and there are many more (he's a prolific writer).

soontobe that is very true.

This thread is descending to the depths that only Gransnet can conjure up.

Can't any of you manage to understand that I posted the OP at a time when I was feeling very shocked and very low. If you had any decency between the lot of you, you would leave this thread alone now, and let it drop off the bottom of 'Actives'.

But you would all rather use it to put forward your own pet theories. As usual.

AnnieBach yes, all of the things are the work of man in the name of God. So Judgement Day is more than likely to come because of the self destruction of mankind and God will decide how well we have lived our lives. Will part of that accountability be what we did to help those who are suffering?

Iam64 I have read that too. I certainly know my Mum and many others find strength and support from their faith. I am sure the findings of research is true. I also believe having a faith means lots of good works happen. There's a kindness in many of the people who attend my Mum's church that I find reassuring. All I would say is that for me doesn't prove that God exists.

I respect the rights of those who have a faith, but not to the extent of accepting the religious freedom of others. For example, the treatment of Yazidi by ISIS. The war between Jews and Palestinians. I most definitely acknowledge though that a lot of good is done in the name of God and I admire people who become missionaries. I would question though the true reason for some doing the good things they do. I am not saying believing in God or having a faith is a bad thing, just that it is not for me. I don't mind admitting one bit that religious fundamentalism scares me.

Sorry jing we cross posted. I will let it drop.

How kind of you Wilma to say my faith isn't a bad thing , I feel so much at ease now , I can pray in the knowledge you think so well of me

You can transfer it all in a moment. 'ang on......

Jingle, I have said I understand why you said what you did but I will not walk away from this thread which has turned from a genuine cry of pain to verbal abuse of many decent,honest people throughout the world and many decent, honest people of faith who have been killed because of their faith

No, it is not abuse of those who died for their faith to say that their faith should not have required that of them. To think that the individuals are being abused is to misunderstand the views expressed in the posts and it verges on "victimology" on their behalf.

Really Elegran? Wilma has questioned the reasons why some have become missionaries

I have seen no abuse on this thread - just an interesting debate on a serious topic.

Wilma said "some" I admire people who become missionaries. I would question though the true reason for some doing the good things they do.

There is a power to be felt in converting "the heathen" from their own beliefs to the one the missionary believes in. There are indeed some people whose unconscious motive is to exercise that power, as there are some people who go into any occupation where they can influence others and control them while they are helping them. To say so is not to abuse those who died for their faith, or to condemn those who enter the caring professions.

I admire people who become missionaries. I would question though the true reason for some doing the good things they do

I think I mentioned missionaries first of all; I have always presumed those in our family had a fervent belief in their brand of religion and thought that any other way of worshipping was wrong. Some of them died during their attempts to convert other people to their way of thinking - they were not killed, they just endured horrendous conditions overseas. I would think their reasoning was that they were trying to save souls from eternal damnation. This was one or more centuries ago.

And religion can cause breakups in families too if one member of the family becomes so adamant that what they believe is right and other family members do not agree.

AnnieBach is it me you think is verbally abusing posters on here? I am really shocked if it is. I didn't question why some people become missionaries at all. I said quite clearly I admired them. In fact, I don't think I have abused anyone, just stated my personal beliefs and that I accept and respect those held by others. And your sarcastic reply to my post is not very Christian is it?

I said I would let this rest because jing as the OP asked, but I will not accept being accused of abusing anybody for expressing my opinion in what I considered to be a reasonable manner.

anniebach just likes to argue. About anything. (long may she continue)

I am now getting my besom broom and will sweep you all out from this thread.