The Pope

Best friend didnt report her. someone else. The thought of 12 children!! lol.. ( apologies to anyone who has. I do admire you!)

I didn't know that Anniebach. It was so very sad. I'm glad its not like that now.

Very common annep.

I think some jobs such as police, teaching etc, that can be viewed as contolling /power based or caring / helpful, attract exactly those different types. Priests / nuns the same. A few people possibly choose a job/ way of life because they want the power & control it can bring whereas others choose the role for the more altruistic aspects.

annep, I think the existence of God is quite compatible with the big bang theory. Because for a big bang, you have to have a big banger! Or to put it another way:

- The universe began to exist (according to the big bang theory). It hasn’t always been there - it had a beginning.
- Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
- Therefore the universe has a cause.

Space, time and matter only began to exist when the universe began to exist. Therefore a being that caused the universe to come into existence would have to be outside space and time (spaceless and timeless) and not made of physical matter (immaterial). This sounds like God.

As for love, beauty, pain, cruelty and death: here’s what the Bible says about them:

When God made the world, it was perfect. There was no brokenness, no illness, no death, no pain. God made people in his image. This is why there is still love and beauty.

It all went wrong when people decided to rebel against God instead of trusting him. This broke the relationship between them and God. As a result, sin, natural disasters, illness and death entered the world. This is why there is pain, cruelty and death.

God loves people and did not want us to be separated from him. So he provided a way for whoever chooses to come back into relationship with him, through coming to earth himself and paying the penalty for the wrongdoing that separates each individual from him. One day he will come a second time and there will be an end to all the brokenness and mess.

But there will also be judgement for all who are still separated from him - who have not put their trust in Jesus.

I can only speak for myself, thoughts of entering a convent can mean a battle within one’s own mind and heart , it certaintly isn’t ‘I think I would like to be nun

PECS, I agree.

Yes Skye - and the lion will lie down with the lamb

Yes! Looking forward to it!

I am Catholic with issues. My sister, over 40 years ago along with her youth group, reported on their much loved curate at the time, for his closeness to a 15 year old girl in their group. They met with the Bishop and were subsequently disregarded, (the said priest was moved on).
In my diocese some 20 plus years ago my son's friend
at school was abused along with others. He was an an altar boy in his local church. The priest was sent to prison I believe but I have no idea where he is now. Hidden away as a monk somewhere perhaps?
As a teacher in a Catholic primary my next encounter was when one of my male colleagues was, " touched up" by our then parish priest after a successful Ofsted inspection and asked at the same time if he was gay. Again the said priest was "moved".
This is my experience in what I always felt was my small world, so exactly how widespread is this abuse?
My answer? Allow Catholic priests to marry and attract people to the role with the life experience and fulfilment to bring true heart and love of God, rather than some warped disguise of who they really are to fulfil an abnormal need.
I know too there are some very genuine religious priests and nuns out there but while questions go unanswered, unresolved and disregarded what hope is there? Without the abuse of so many fully recognised and dealt with, the Catholic church (and others) is in very serious trouble.

Annapops, I used to think as you did about allowing priests to marry but unfortunately the bigger picture is that abusers are in every walk of life, not just the priesthood. The priests who would marry are unlikely to be the abusers anyway. It’s a sad fact that where is access to children, abusers will be attracted, eg schools, scouts, first aid groups, youth clubs, ALL churches, (not just the Catholic Church), etc.

I know of someone who was a priest but left due to a woman who he married. Had children. He became a social worker later holding a very senior position. All of this in the 80s. In his opinion there wasn't a children's home where abuse did not take place, not just religious based ones. Now I am not saying all abuse was of a sexual nature. He became a leader in closing of children's homes and advocated good fostering instead. No children's homes left in any area he once worked in. There must be loads of people who were aware of what happened way back.

I do not believe men join the priesthood, spend several years in a seminary to have access to children .

The reason for celibacy is the priest can put his parishioners first, a man with a wife and children will find this cannot always be. So celibacy works for some but joining the priesthood , studying with fellow students, the early years pass and the loneliness of celibacy, sexual emotions become stronger , why children I don’t know, I don’t know why fathers sexually abuse their own children, so I ask is this desire for sexual activity as homosexuality , when this was illegal it made no difference

I am not comparing homosexuals with child abusers.

St Peter in the beginning was married, as I believe in the days of the early church priests were. Sometime down the line it was decreed that priests should be single possibly so they weren't financially encumbered. Whilst I agree that being married doesn't necessary preclude abuse, and as you have often said Annie most abuse happens in the home, I wouldn't disagree with that. Nevertheless given that most edicts in the church are man made, they didn't come from Jesus himself, but then it seems to me that if the mighty great behemoth of the catholic church had stuck to the essence and purity of his teachings it wouldn't have become the corrupt organisation it has over the centuries. There is a school of thought that suggests that Jesus himself was married anyway and the fact that he is portrayed as a single man is another distortion of the truth. Jewish men of his time didn't remain single. Getting back to the point though, I agree with those who think there needs to be some rethinking on the celibacy matter. There are so many issues set in stone that should be looked at, especially in light of everything that's gone wrong. Pope Francis has been a ground breaking pope in many ways, but still the church needs to go further if it is to survive. One only has to look at Ireland to see how the support has fallen away of late. I can only speak for myself, I was brought up a catholic so I don't have the knowledge of of other denominations, but from my observations of married clergy and the new addition of women priests in other branches of the christian church, I would say what they have would be preferable.

Terri, I don’t think faith has dropped away in Ireland, many stayed away from the Papal Mass as a protest , a friend of mine did but she still attends church.

St.Peter was married but didn’t spend much time with his wife , when Christ said to give up all and follow him did this mean wives too? We just don’t know.

Much will depend on the next Pope, Frankie looked so tired.

I went to a Catholic Primary School and most of the Nuns were no different to any other teachers where some are nice and some were less so. It was an age where corporal punishment was still allowed so you might have had a swift rap over the knuckles with a hairbrush which hurt your pride more than your fingers. There was rumour that you could get the belt but I don't remember anyone actually getting it. It was much better than living at home where the punishment was explosive, erratic and sometimes meant you were kept home to hide the marks. At least you knew what the rules were and what was likely to get you into trouble and 80% of those Nuns were like a caring Mum to me, the other 20 were just a bit tart. When I moved from the Convent to the State Secondary School there were far more sadists that at the Convent.
To me, it is the hypocrisy of the people who were likely preaching purity and goodness under the window that most likely read "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." Then for those who were chosen to be a rescuer of a damaged child to cover it all up was just the worst betrayal. If I hadn't had an education within the Catholic faith, the quote above might seem like something from a Peadophiles Bible.
Sadly, power often seems to pervert but if you have a twisted psyche which allows harm to a child without conscience then the Church, Children's Homes, Education, etc gives you access to those children. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that there has to be a better system for prosecuting/imprisoning/confining those that are identified.

If celibacy is the cause of sexual abuse how come most abuse is carried out by fathers and grandfathers?

Good point Annibach I agree.
Personal Inadequacies of the perpetrator are often highly identifiable, it is as much about the power & control abusers feel & asert over their victims that drives this predatory behaviour.

Bridgeit, as it does with rapists. I hate saying this but I don’t ever see child abuse ending. The need for power and control is part of the persons nature surely

I personally don’t think celibacy is the reason although it may well be added to by sexual frustrations (of course we have no statistics to say if fathers /grandfathers/ uncles who abuse are in fulfilling sexual relationships or not) I believe celibacy of priests and nuns was brought in for completely secular reasons not by anything handed down spiritually
The latest news I heard today appears to be that the present Pope had knowledge of what was happening in some situations and covered it up obviously if that’s the case more will come out
I don’t know the answers, the Catholic church does not have the monopoly on abuse, it seems to be prevelant and covered up in all religions so can only be about the power opportunity and trust lay people put into these men of importance

It is in religions, schools, youth clubs, childrens care homes, family homes,

It is claimed The Pope was told of one alleged case. There are some who think this was leaked by traditionalists who do not like Frankie taking the church away from it’s old ways

There is something seriously wrong in an institution where 300 priests in Pennsylvania are alleged to have abused children. It has to have become a culture within that organisation, or some would say cult.

I don't believe the celibacy of itself has anything to do with whether someone is sexually attracted to children. It may be that an organisation that uses so much ritual to attract and control its members creates an unhealthy culture.

Closed institutions are ideal places for abuse of all kinds to take place. Residential care settings for children, young offenders, children with mental or physical health problems have all been places were high levels of abuse take place.

Families are the other obvious place, they're like closed institutions in some ways. I stress, I'm not saying all families and I'm not putting blame on anyone within families where abuse occurs on anyone but the abuser. It's true though, that abuse is more likely to occur where the abuser wields unreasonable levels of power.

Some people, mainly men, are sexually attracted to children. It's a sexual preference, in the same way that some of us love people of our own gender. Being sexually attracted to children may be something the individual is born with but it isn't something they have to act on.

Skye17 if God loves people why allow so much suffering of innocent people. We would never punish our children to this extent for disobedience. We would have compassion..
Natural disasters and illness cannot just "enter the world" ??? When I see beauty I know there must be some power who understands love and beauty and goodness. ( my husband insists its all controlled in the brain. Everything originates in the brain). But I cannot equate it with allowing hate and pain.

All religions, but particularly the Catholic church, seem to have a very unhealthy interest in people's sex lives.

If the Pope and others in the Catholic hierarchy learn anything from the exposure of these dreadful abuses perpetuated by priests, monks and nuns, it should be that celibacy is unnatural and should certainly never be compulsory for religious people. Why not make celibacy optional, and lessen the risks of these people abusing children?