As an agnostic

Doodle
I can follow it up in any way I choose and, far from trying to shock, I am simply stating my view as others state theirs.
If my view shocks other people, that is not my problem.
The whole religious thing is, IMO, a fairy story, no matter who wrote what, when or where.
Those who believe in any religion (and sceptics and athiests too) can read that, according to 'the word', JC followed the teachings of the Torah 90% of the time, making him (in believers eyes) a true Jew. That puts all other religions out of the park and my basis for non-belief is partly based on the hatred of and dismissal of many religions by other religions, all clamouring for the right to be the one true religion.
It's pure poppycock.
I acknowledge that everyone has the right to believe what they like and they can call my view poppycock till the cows come home. You don't respect my view any more than I do yours. I do however, respect (or acknowledge) your right to think differently.

Undoubtably there is a lot of goodwill on GN.
There certainly is, mumofmadboys, and in fact, this thread did start off in a very reasonable manner, even if opinions differed.

Well Jalima1108, if you don’t like it you can always ..........

The problem with the original statement is that a lot of people who do believe in god only believe in their version of him and therefore that the rest of us are going to hell in a handcart. It's been the cause of many a conflict and still is today.It's also caused the torture, mistreatment and death of people who happened to believe something even slightly different to those in power, or who didn't conform to their narrow beliefs. The idea that suffering in this life saves you in the next is still prevelant in some faiths.
I suppose if you believe they will get their come-uppance/
reward in the next life it's OK but, if this is all there is, religion has screwed things up for a lot of people.

Some choose to use the wrong that has been done in the name of faith to mock / attack our faith

I choose to think of the good done by so many millions in the world because of their love of Christ , just two as an example - William Wilberforce , William Booth, just two of many millions

Interesting that the two people you have chosen as examples are people whose services would not have been needed had it not been for doctrines of the Christian church. So Black Africans were considered uneducated heathen savages who could therefore quite legitimately be enslaved and beaten in the hope that their soul might be saved. The poor of course were simply suffering because of the sins they had committed and did not prosper because their allotted place was at the bottom of the heap. If sheer humanity had over ruled religion and all lives been considered of equal value Wilberforce and Booth would have been unnecessary.
Please note I am not saying they didn't do good simply that they were redressing a fault caused by religion.

Which is exactly why I stick with the doctrine of kindness and bypass the religious bit trisher - sometimes I am not as good at it as I might wish to be, but I hope I am not causing suffering to others in the name of my beliefs.

And I am saying Christians are human beings, they do not walk on water or perform miracles, they do wrong and they do good. Here More emphasis is placed on the bad, I am bringing balance

I don't think more emphasis is placed on the bad Christians do Annie but I do think it is important to understand that the touchy-feely Christianity now practiced is a million miles away from Church Militant and the Hell and damnation once preached. And it is that church far more than any other that has built the western world.

However I do take not of the words from the Pope and other faith leaders.
I am assuming from that Cindersdad meant all, or at least many, faiths, not just Christianity.

I do agree with your post Tue 01-Jan-19 11:25:44 trisher.
As you say, faith has caused so much conflict in the world and does still today.

That is down to people's various interpretations of a god, and it is people who have caused the conflicts.

Does it prove one way or another the existence of a god and what form he or she takes? I don't know.

If there was no religion, I doubt that that would be the end of conflict either; human beings will always find something to fight about.

I do think it is important to understand that the touchy-feely Christianity now practiced is a million miles away from Church Militant and the Hell and damnation once preached
It's not that long since we were subjected to a 'fire and brimstone' sermon

trisher Black Africans were not beaten and enslaved to save their souls , they were free labour

gabriella I have only posted twice on this thread and to my thinking have shown you no disrespect. I have just pointed out that you cannot say you respect my rights to believe what I like when you go on to say that in your mind I believe in a fairytale or something unbelievable. That is not respecting someone’s point of view. Where, and in what words exactly did I not respect your point of view in my posts.

I do not think that the fact that atrocities have been and are committed in the name of religion can possibly be in dispute by believers and non-believers alike.

Equally there is no doubt that much good has been and is done in the name of religion.

Ditto on both counts for non-religious reasons.

The difference is that most religions preach kindness/love/forbearance but at the same time have been and are committing evils in the name of that religion.

It is not a happy situation and one that I choose to steer clear of - dangerous stuff, belief in fundamentals - it seems to be inexorably drawn towards fundamentalism to one degree or another.

I remember being asked to go with a friend, a fervent Catholic, to Bramhall Lane in Sheffield to a Billy Graham 'show' in ghe 80s and show it was. I doubt I'd heard of him. Truly, I was a-mazed, the fervour was palpable, the noisen deafening and, when he stepped onto the stage, the screams and fainting were of epic proportions.
My friend, some 15 years older than I, was gaga.
One unbelievable scenario was when he made an impassioned 'fire and brimstone' speech which deafened me.
He was very loud
He was very critical
He was going to show the thousands during there, that there was a better way to live life...which included buckets brought round by his crew during each interval for donations, in return for a mealy-mouthed blessing.
When he invited people down for hands-on blessings and those actions where he placed his hands on their head and pushed them backwards into waiting arms, there was a mighty scrum, like sheep released into a field in springtime. Streams of screaming people of all ages, mwound up to fever pitch by the warm-up guys and carried forward on a tide of religious forgiveness and the prospect of, for some, healing hands.
Reader, I had to lie when asked if I had enjoyed the experience.
My ears rang for days after when BG was probably still counting his money.
It was years later that I saw the same kind of scenario on a tv programme by Louis Theroux. I found it quite disturbing and the preacher, a charlaton.

If that is your only experience of religion then no wonder you are cynical Gabriella!

I'm surprised that a fervent Roman Catholic would attend a Billy Graham concert.

Doodle
Dear dear. Let me spell it out.
For instance, Conservatives can respect or acknowledge the right of other parties to have different opinions but they don't have to agree that those opinions are correct.
I can say that 1+1 = 2 and you can say that 1+1 = 3 and I can respect/ acknowledge that you have a different view as regards accounting. It doesn't mean that I agree and we both can be critical of each other's methods. Respect has nowt to do with agreement. It's acknowledging that other views on all subjects, exist.
I respect your right to be wrong.
I hope that clarifies matters.

Gabriella your response is arrogant, rude and impolite. To say 'I respect your right to be wrong' shows absolutely no respect.
Perhaps you could make a NY resolution to show kindness and respect to others. A lot of us would appreciate that.

No Jalima1108
As I've said before, I went to a church school, attended C of E church weekly with my father (rather unwillingly) from ages 5-16, had and since had several friends of other faiths (not that we talked about it) namely Jewish and Muslim and been invited to see the inside of both synagogues and a mosque.
That does not make me a believer, conversely, the traditions which apply to those who hold those beliefs, have been interesting to observe.

Luckygirl what evils are Christians commiting in the name of Christ ?

MOMB
My comment is neither rude, arrogant nor impolite, merely my view. I'm allowed to have an opposing view. It wasn't even addressed to you so I've no idea why you're getting irritated.

Oh annie - instilling guilt would be top of my list - yes, it still goes on. Instilling shame at how one is - look at the problem that the church has had with women and with homosexuality. All those lovely people made to feel bad about themselves - that is an evil in my book.

And I repeat - I also acknowledge the good.

GabriellaG54 Reader, I had to lie when asked if I had enjoyed the experience.

Who is Reader
Have you copied and pasted this post from elsewhere?

*the/sitting/wound/charlatan

mumofmadboys
Any other New Year Resolutions that you would suggest that others should adopt?