losing faith in a loving god

My faith has sustained me through some very difficult times in my life. I'm thankful that I had faith then and continue to do so.

The Bible isn't a book of myths and legends, paddyann, but the bits we get to see/read/hear have been selected from a wider range of writings, many of which were considered by various authorities to be unsuitable for general consumption. It was those who selected the books to form the Bible who were keeping people in check, the books weren't written to do that.

I don’t hold God responsible for bad stuff. I just don’t believe God exists. We are all responsible for our own actions.

paddyann is it not religion but the way that people distort the principles of faith to suit their own ends? How can anybody tolerate the concept of a 'Holy War' - a complete contradiction of terms. The Crusader's ethos appeared to be that 'Unless you believe in the Prince of Peace, I will slash you to ribbons.' If it wasn't horrific it would almost be funny. The Northern Ireland situation when Christians have killed each other because of the great Protestant /Catholic divide - how does that equate with Jesus' exhortation to 'Love one another as I have loved you'? Purgatory was the invention of the Catholic Church to get money from simple believers. Those who start wars in the name of religion are not people following the rules of their faith - they are distorting the rules to accomodate their own hatred.

peasblossom thanks for pointing out my error.as you say Braham is the creator, i was refering to the 3 gods of existence, brahma the creator,
vishnu the preserver,and shiva the destroyer.

There was a similar cry from another poster when Assad started his genocide. She's no longer with us but I remember the thread.

It happens time and again throughout the millennia but this time there is a madman who could destroy the world if he wished.
If there is a God he might think that one death was preferable to thousands, maybe millions. I just don't know.

God gave man a free will do as they choose, good/bad.

It is man who has caused this situation in Ukraine through his free will.

X

The whole concept of God is far too complex for our tiny brains, so we imagine a being in the sky because that's all we can understand. I believe in God as a 'force of good' that is so powerful we can't describe it or explain it.

God does not control us. We have been given choice and we choose to destroy ourselves. But there is a 'force of evil' pushing us towards that (we call that force Satan). Maybe Putin is the anti-Christ and this is the final battle as per the book of Revelations?

The Catholic Church is a load of nonsense created to mind-control people.

red1

peasblossom thanks for pointing out my error.as you say Braham is the creator, i was refering to the 3 gods of existence, brahma the creator,
vishnu the preserver,and shiva the destroyer.

Didn’t men to sound like a know-it-all? It was a reliant I seriously considered at one point.

But like them all, the practice didn’t match the ethos☹️

It is man who has caused this situation in Ukraine through his free will but that’s not strictly true serendipity it’s one particular man and his cohorts which is rendering the rest of the world completely at their ransom so the average man has nothing to do with this and their free will is not being accepted, so how fair is that ?

Sorry BlueBelle I meant 1 man, didnt explain it properly. Yes, 1 man.

I believe there’s more to this life than just us and I do have faith. The teachings of Jesus and the 10 commandments are a good rule for living, you break any of them and the hurt is far reaching, it’s an ideal, something to aspire to, many of us fail, but try again, we have to accept responsibility for our actions, if a superior force or being or God intervened at every violation of the rules we would not have free will.. I think all religions think the same, but in different format, the message is there. When I heard that Ukraine had been invaded and how those people are going to suffer, also the ones in Russia, doing just what they are told to do by a mad man, I prayed with all my heart. My faith gets me through. But I’m not a regular churchgoer it’s something there inside me. So whatever that force is, whether its God or force it’s there. Can you imagine a world without free will?

Did god not make man in his own image? So what does that say then? If man is capable of such evil, how does that equate with a supposedly loving god?

Allsorts

I believe there’s more to this life than just us and I do have faith. The teachings of Jesus and the 10 commandments are a good rule for living, you break any of them and the hurt is far reaching, it’s an ideal, something to aspire to, many of us fail, but try again, we have to accept responsibility for our actions, if a superior force or being or God intervened at every violation of the rules we would not have free will.. I think all religions think the same, but in different format, the message is there. When I heard that Ukraine had been invaded and how those people are going to suffer, also the ones in Russia, doing just what they are told to do by a mad man, I prayed with all my heart. My faith gets me through. But I’m not a regular churchgoer it’s something there inside me. So whatever that force is, whether its God or force it’s there. Can you imagine a world without free will?

I totally agree with your whole message, Allsorts.

My own faith has become stronger through the years. I have experience of how the sheer force of prayer can make the impossible become possible.

I have become very disappointed in the Church though, both Anglican and my adopted Catholic church.

I now pray for Hungary but also pray for the women and children in Afghanistan. I limit my prayers to a few heartfelt subjects but try to be constant.

Blondiescot but what about all the good people. The ones who give up their lives for others. Those who nurse, those who love, those who do not harm. There are people like that too.
We have a choice of how to live our lives. Some choose good and some not. Some weave a path between the two.

I believe in God, but I've had my faith shaken a bit during the pandemic I must admit. But I just can't believe there's nothing though. What would be the point of life otherwise and all the strong emotions we feel if there was nothing? Why there's wars and suffering I don't understand that either and this latest conflict is so worrying. I just hope it doesn't escalate.

What would be the point of life otherwise and all the strong emotions we feel if there was nothing?
That's how I feel.

I don't have all the answers I would like but I believe in God. And I believe if we lived as Jesus taught, the world would be a better place.
I've had a bit of a hard time recently and my faith, weak though it is, has helped.

I believe in a loving God who has given us all freewill. I agree that the awful situation in Ukraine is a huge test to our faith. But God doesn't just sweep in and make everything right-that is not his way. To me the world is full of examples of God's love and existence.

giulia

Allsorts

I believe there’s more to this life than just us and I do have faith. The teachings of Jesus and the 10 commandments are a good rule for living, you break any of them and the hurt is far reaching, it’s an ideal, something to aspire to, many of us fail, but try again, we have to accept responsibility for our actions, if a superior force or being or God intervened at every violation of the rules we would not have free will.. I think all religions think the same, but in different format, the message is there. When I heard that Ukraine had been invaded and how those people are going to suffer, also the ones in Russia, doing just what they are told to do by a mad man, I prayed with all my heart. My faith gets me through. But I’m not a regular churchgoer it’s something there inside me. So whatever that force is, whether its God or force it’s there. Can you imagine a world without free will?

I totally agree with your whole message, Allsorts.

My own faith has become stronger through the years. I have experience of how the sheer force of prayer can make the impossible become possible.

I have become very disappointed in the Church though, both Anglican and my adopted Catholic church.

I now pray for Hungary but also pray for the women and children in Afghanistan. I limit my prayers to a few heartfelt subjects but try to be constant.

I agree guilia. We haven’t been to church for ten years, and can’t see us going back. Churches are religion....like any other. Jesus is Christianity. He is the Head, and no one else.

The masses are, and always have been, kept in check by war....and the dictators who lead them. Some are started in the name of religion, but that has nothing to do with God.

If there’s no God....what on earth is the point of all of this?

To make a difference in this life.

We have to choose what we believe: either god is all-powerful or she/he/it is a loving god. Can't be both for sure.

Wars are caused by many things, and sadly religion is one of them, which is why I do not engage with a religion, but believe in a doctrine of kindness, and strive towards that as best I can.

I always find it interesting to read the views of people I admire.

John Carey - ex professor of literature at Oxford: On religion, he concludes that: “Though I thought of myself as an agnostic, I was really a Christian who just did not happen to believe in God.” Borne out of his childhood experiences as a choirboy and remembering the words of the Magnificat, he found that: “My belief........that the mighty and the rich deserved to be humbled and go hungry …. had outlasted my belief in God.”

And this is composer John Rutter on religion....... a fascinating article and long, so please be warned if you are feeling tired this morning!...

"I am friend, fellow traveller, and agnostic supporter of the Christian faith; in my early days, people described themselves by default as Church of England if they didn't really have any religious affiliation...........I sang in the chapel choir and was always interested in religious studies, but somehow being a non-joiner became a habit; although I think I probably was religious in quite a powerful sense when I was young and into my twenties, not least because I felt so lucky as my career began to take off and things began to go well for me.......... a kind of theology of gratitude; probably can't take it very far because what happens when something goes wrong in your life? - the sense that there must be some benevolent deity behind all this is a bit like American religious thought; when I began to travel to America I started to meet an awful lot of Christians;....... the American faith world contains some of the very finest and most searching of theology and religious thought and practice, and some of the worst; I have experienced the full spectrum; ........ if I wanted to be honest about my own faith journey it has been backwards over the years; I am afraid what slightly began to sow the seeds of doubt was seeing the absolute certainty of religious adherents in America, and some of the harm that that certainty could lead to; I started by thinking there must be many paths to God and went from there to a rather tougher position which is that the universe is basically numbers, and in some sense mathematical and a lottery; if there is a controlling deity he is a bit like a Mafia don who is capable of doing good and charitable things, but also almost takes pleasure in doing malicious and harmful things, sowing the seeds of long-running dissent and problems; that is hard to reconcile with the Christian concept of a loving God; I don't find it helpful either to say that you have to have a personal relationship with Jesus; numerous of my religious friends say that if you are not born again and if Jesus is not your personal friend, then you are not a true Christian; I always remember the words of the Rev. Professor Charles Moule, a most searching theologian, who said he was perfectly sure he had only been born once; .........; people sometimes have asked me whether the fact that my son was killed affects my faith position; it happened in 2001 when he was nineteen and a student here at Cambridge, and he got run over crossing Queens’ Road one night; completely unforeseen and random, but I think that the answer is no, as by then I wouldn't have described myself as a believing Christian; on the other hand, you have to consider the alternatives; a world without any churches or space for religious thought or contemplation, or based only on material values, would be a hell; in a sense, if you believe the specific doctrines of the faith, I think that just the statement it makes about how man should not live by bread alone, is immensely important; music is a part of that because it is useless in a literal sense, you don't have to have music to survive, yet it has always been there; imagining a world without it is impossible, as is a world without faith; even though you might say that religion is an invention of man, I don't think it invalidates its worth; ....... it began to look to me as if the whole edifice of religion was a man-made construct; I do remain hugely sympathetic to the church, its music, its liturgy, its traditions, and, with some caveats, its ministry; on the whole, the Church I was baptised into, is trying to do good in a difficult situation, and is making a statement on behalf of qualities like compassion, forgiveness, charity, that everybody would support; I would be heartbroken if the Church of England closed its doors tomorrow; I hope to be buried in a country churchyard with a funeral service according to the 1662 Prayer Book, and all my favourite pieces of music; I suppose that is wanting it both ways - both the trappings without necessarily subscribing to the doctrine; I think there are quite a lot of people like me; Vaughan Williams was similar in that he had a sense of generalised spirituality which was triggered by things like standing on top of the Malvern Hills and contemplating the beauty of nature, or walking through the west door of a cathedral and being awestruck by the grandeur and mystery of the building, or being inspired by 'Pilgrim's Progress'; I think he would not have called himself a Christian, yet his life was steeped in Christianity at every point; I am like that and my moral compass probably does derive in large part from Christian ethic and teaching; I owe Christianity a huge debt and it is rather ungrateful of me not to believe in it more."

What would be the point of life otherwise and all the strong emotions we feel if there was nothing? - a central conundrum that we all grapple with. The "God-shaped hole" that we need to fill. But what we choose to fill it with might not be true - it might simply be something to fill the hole. We do not and cannot know.

When my OH lay dying he asked me: "What is the point of life if there is no god?" I had to tell him that sadly I did not know. I could have mouthed some platitude at that extreme moment, but he knew me well and knew I would have been making it up - I could not lie to him at such a critical moment.

For me the point is to spread as much happiness as you can - not always an easy task.

Bit of a long read, Luckygirl3, but I think John Rutter contradicts himself in the first line! Agnosticism is the belief that God cannot be known yet this was the heart of Jesus' mission. He came so we can know God. For instance Jesus is the Son of God and we learn many things about the nature of God by lookimg at Jesus. There is a deeper spiritual side as well (the bit about being born again).
Whilst Jesus taught many things such as living peacefully, caring for one another but He also warned that evil would remain in the world until He returns. "You will hear of wars and rumours of wars..."
Is God loving? John 3:16 sums it up. "For God so loved the world that He gave His One and only Son so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."

If there’s no God....what on earth is the point of all of this?

Great question, Discodancer1975

For me, an atheist, life is pretty pointless when all's said and done.

However we are here, by some fluke, and we try to enjoy our brief journey on the planet.

Galaxy

To make a difference in this life.

To who? What benefit is there?
As someone said....you’re born...have a s..t life....you die!

Thank the Lord that isn’t true. Thank the Lord we have the choice.