losing faith in a loving god

Zoejory

*If there’s no God....what on earth is the point of all of this?*

Great question, Discodancer1975

For me, an atheist, life is pretty pointless when all's said and done.

However we are here, by some fluke, and we try to enjoy our brief journey on the planet.

Thank the Lord it’s not ‘ by some fluke ‘

DiscoDancer1975

Zoejory

If there’s no God....what on earth is the point of all of this?

Great question, Discodancer1975

For me, an atheist, life is pretty pointless when all's said and done.

However we are here, by some fluke, and we try to enjoy our brief journey on the planet.

Thank the Lord it’s not ‘ by some fluke ‘

It sure is

Doodle

Blondiescot but what about all the good people. The ones who give up their lives for others. Those who nurse, those who love, those who do not harm. There are people like that too.
We have a choice of how to live our lives. Some choose good and some not. Some weave a path between the two.

Of course - but we can do that without having to do so because of some sky fairy beliefs. There are good people and there are bad people - I just happen to believe that they are made that way and not because of some 'god'. You're born, you live the life you choose to live and then you die - end of story.

I think John Rutter contradicts himself in the first line - that is his intention!!

I much regret the loss of my faith which sustained me for years. I'm now so cynical about it and find it impossible to believe that the God I learned about when young is out there somewhere.
And yet, I also find it hard to believe that this life/planet is the result of some scientific/biological accident.
I still often pray, strangely, and find it comforting somehow.

I read this years ago;- By F.Carlin.
Who seeks perfection in the art
Of driving well an ass and cart,
Or painting mountains in a mist
Seeks God although an atheist.

I find it difficult when people say they are Christians but do not belong to a church. Of course each and every church is imperfect because we the congregation are all imperfect but we are called to be the Body of Christ and we cannot function without each other. We are also called by Jesus to take communion which we cannot do if we don't go to church. The fellowship, love and care of fellow members of the Body of Christ is paramount.

I think you will find that the whole concept of the body of Christ, whilst deeply meaningful to you and your fellows - and I respect that - is a completely empty phrase to the vast majority of the world's citizens who are of a variety of other faiths or none.

I read it to mean that we are all a part of each other and owe respect to all - I absolutely endorse that.

I think that when people say that they are Christians but do not belong to a church, they are saying either that they believe in a God; or that they broadly subscribe to the moral tenets of the New Testament.

I am an agnostic basically - I believe that not only do I not know if there is a god, but that no-one else does either. And indeed there is no way they can know.

I know that each religion claims that they do know, because of the arrival of a prophet of some kind, or because of the writings of people (usually men) around at the time, but they all find themselves interpreting what they read in different ways, with the result that any truth that might lie therein is corrupted by the needs and greeds and desires of those doing the interpreting.

What I find so interesting in Rutter's stance is that he no longer believes in a god, but he does believe in the importance of the search; and sees that the world would be a poorer place without that. But he also fears fundamentalism - as I do. Religions deal in fundamentals and cannot help but gravitate towards fundamentalism.

My searching has led me to the doctrine of kindness, because it seems to me that is really all that matters. I am not very good at it some of the time - but it is what I strive towards.

To be honest I think that it would be very helpful if everyone took that as their goal - and I am sure the vast majority of people (of any and no religion) would agree with this. Sadly there are those who entirely reject this - Putin, Hitler and the rest.

For me religion gets in the way of that.

I had faith until my late teens, brought up as CofE but sent to RC convent school where everything was high mass, hellfire and brimstone and purgatory.
Now I an agnostic or atheist, I struggle with the concept of Holy Wars, a loving God in the face of so much evil and sadness. I really find the statement it’s ‘man’s free will’ as trite and little consolation.
The gross hypocrisy of many church goers I know simply finished off religion for me.

I have known people who profess to be Christian, often very involved in the church, yet are unkind about and to others. If I call them out they take the view that they have a free pass to wherever, ( heaven?) whereas I, the unbeliever who likes to treat everyone as I would like to be treated, which is kindly, is set for the other place.
I point out that one doesn’t have to be Christian, or any other religion fir that matter, to be a good person. I wish they believed me.

I think God is supposed to BE love. So we can make God happen. We all know people who have made God happen.

Can you imagine a world without free will?

Too complicated. To begin with, what is 'free will?' We all act in accordance with our inherited characteristics, and we are products of our environments and the societal norms of our time.

Everything we do, every decision we make, is based on these concepts, along with the materials available to us.

If we had been born in the fifteenth century, our views on religion would have been more firmly entrenched in our belief system, because that was an expectation of that particular society.

Now, we live in an environment where questioning is thought to be a good principle, instead of blind obedience to authority, namely the church.

I don't think God, or any power which goes by that name, is responsible for wars.

Wars are a struggle for money and power, and always have been. That's because as humans, we are hard wired to yearn for these things.

For instance, when someone says of another person, 'Hasn't he done well?' the implication is always of having amassed money or power. It very rarely means, 'he's kind, or generous, or good looking, etc.

That's my view anyway. Sorry for the rant.

Rant away! Your points are very interesting.

mumofmadboys

I find it difficult when people say they are Christians but do not belong to a church. Of course each and every church is imperfect because we the congregation are all imperfect but we are called to be the Body of Christ and we cannot function without each other. We are also called by Jesus to take communion which we cannot do if we don't go to church. The fellowship, love and care of fellow members of the Body of Christ is paramount.

I agree, but not all Christians in churches are caring in our experience. We know plenty of Christians who don’t go to church, because of the total hypocrisy in so many of them.

Yes, it would be wonderful to share more with all Christians, but the reality is, apart from here and there, we’ve been unable to.

Focus on Jesus is what’s important, and telling others about Him. In our experience where we live....churches are just clubs for middle class Christians.

Just to add...Communion can be taken anywhere, as long as two or more people meet in His name.

I am not going to put my views on here or I will be banned for life. Each to their own.

Luckygirl3

*I think John Rutter contradicts himself in the first line* - that is his intention!!

Is it? He concludes Christianity is just "ethics and teachings", i.e. a set of rules. While there is value in the teachings of Christ Christianity is so much more. Put it this way an RE teacher once taught our DD that if you take out the Spiritual side of Jesus, i.e. so just base everything on His teachings, then the story stops on the cross. No ressurrection, no pentecost, the disciples stay in hiding. There is a God, He can be known. Actually the Bible teaches we are born 'in sin' meaning we are 'dead' to God. So yes you are right to think you 'Agnostic' in that you don't know God BUT you can get to know Him!

I have felt the same DiscoDancer and stayed away from church for many years because of it, only going again on a regular basis 5 years ago.

As you have said it's focusing on Jesus that's important and "telling others about Him" when we can.

Smileless2012

I have felt the same DiscoDancer and stayed away from church for many years because of it, only going again on a regular basis 5 years ago.

As you have said it's focusing on Jesus that's important and "telling others about Him" when we can.

?

We keep having these threads on GN.
The believers and non believers.
Of course no one knows if there is a God or not (enter all those who say yes we know there isn’t, the sky fairy and far worse things said to people of faith) the point is it is called faith.
Those of us who believe don’t know but we have faith.
Yes there are good people who say they are Christian and bad people who say they are Christian and I’ve met plenty of both.
All these threads seem to be the basis of people who don’t believe coming up with the most offensive way possible of putting down those who do.
I won’t change my faith because of anything in these threads and I very much doubt any non believer whole change theirs either.
All the threads seem to follow the same path those who don’t believe saying there is no loving God because if there was, this that or the other wouldn’t happen. All those people who don’t believe in God then blame the God they don’t believe in for all the bad in the world.
And round and round we go.

Its the converts that insist on "telling others about him" that annoy me most .Have your beliefs but please dont attempt to convert me .Haven't "christians "done enough harm when they sent missionaries to convert ethnic communities not only to the "christian" religion but detsroyed the lives of millions who were perfectly happy with the life they had .
Sadly some of you still think thats OK .

Serendipity22

God gave man a free will do as they choose, good/bad.

It is man who has caused this situation in Ukraine through his free will.

X

If there is a God and he can’t/doesn’t do anything what is the point of it?

Talking to someone about your faith isn't necessarily about converting, it's about sharing. I never talk about my faith unless someone asks me or there's a thread like this one on GN.

If I know someone is in need, I always ask if they would mind if I prayed for them. Sometimes the offer is declined which is absolutely fine of course but IMO the offer is usually accepted, even by those who say they have no faith.

God gave us free will to chose or not, too believe in him and love him. He wants that love to be given freely, as only true love can be; that is the essence of free will.

sorry, that should have been 'in my experience' not IMO.

Smileless2012

Talking to someone about your faith isn't necessarily about converting, it's about sharing. I never talk about my faith unless someone asks me or there's a thread like this one on GN.

If I know someone is in need, I always ask if they would mind if I prayed for them. Sometimes the offer is declined which is absolutely fine of course but IMO the offer is usually accepted, even by those who say they have no faith.

God gave us free will to chose or not, too believe in him and love him. He wants that love to be given freely, as only true love can be; that is the essence of free will.

Yes, I will often bring up God, if, like this morning, talking about Russia/ Ukraine....people ask “ when will all this end?” It’s a good starting point. Of course, as on here, some listen....and want to know....some don’t. That’s fine. That’s what Jesus said would happen.

I tend not to tell the same person twice, but of course, on here, you find yourself speaking to different people, but the same ones from earlier are reading it again.

Jesus said to move on...and not be pushy.

DiscoDancer1975

This isn’t the final life. The Bible talks about these things happening. ‘ wars and rumours of wars’. He’s given us choice. He doesn’t like it either, but if He just stepped in every time there was a crisis...we’d effectively have no need for Him, or desire to go to the next life. We wouldn’t know it was Him.

He wants us to want Him....and know Him.

This is for you Buttonjugs